Is It Worth The Risk? - Christian Forum - Bible Forum - Christian Religion Bible Study Forum

GAParker · #1 (**permalink**) 10-08-06, 01:44 AM

Is It Worth The Risk?

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·How come many churches today have Youth Ministers, Cardinals, Reverends (used only as an adjective in scripture), Directors of “this and that”, etc…When the only roles or positions mentioned in scripture for the New Testament church are: Preacher/Teacher/Evangelist (used interchangeably),Elder/Bishop/Overseer/ Pastor (used interchangeably), Deacon, and Saints.

Bottom Line – Who are we as “people” to create our own titles for use in the Lord’s church, instead of adhering to the ones He has ordained?

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·How come many churches today say you need to be baptized into “their” church, when the scriptures reveal that the Lord adds you automatically to “the” church when you are baptized

Acts 2:37- 47 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost…..And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls….. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Bottom Line-Let us “never” place restrictions on entering the church that the Lord has not authorized. To do so is to attempt to place ourselves above the Lord.

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·How come many churches today use entertainment (i.e. concerts, trips to theme parks, pancake suppers, etc) to get people to come to their church, when the Christ and His Apostles simply taught the truth, and then welcomed those who accepted it and prayed for those who didn’t.

Bottom Line – The Christ nor the Apostles felt any need to entertain people to attract them to or keep them in the church. If the truth of the Gospel doesn’t “catch” and “keep” them, their heart is not one that is acceptable unto God.

Matthew 15:7-8 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

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·How come so many churches today use the Bible “plus” additional doctrines/creeds written by men (i.e. Methodist Discipline, Baptist Manual,Westminster Confession of Faith, etc), even though the Christ Himself warns against such practices…

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Just as the Father also warned us….

De 12:32 –What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt notadd thereto, nor diminish from it.

Bottom Line: To use any doctrine other than the Bible is an insult to God and is entrusting your soul to men, instead of to the One who created you.

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How come so many churches have women Preachers, Elders, etc., when the explicit teachings of Paul, taught that they must remain silent in the worship assembly and not be placed in positions over any man of the congregation?

I Cor 14: 34-35 Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

I Tim 2:11-15 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

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There are many things which can be found in churches around our country today, which are not found in scripture. The preceding is just a listing of a few.

When adding or omitting things to the Lord’s church, we need to ask ourselves…..

Is It Worth The Risk Of Losing Our Soul?

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BRIT · #2 (**permalink**) 04-18-07, 12:32 PM

These are some interesting questions you are asking. Do you really think women should be kept silent? I think women are equal to men and should share in worship likewise. I think that passage is archaic and not so much meant for todays times. Women arent subservient anymore.We are an asset in teaching and preaching the gospel! I think there should be as few authorities in church as possible, because after all, the focus is God. I think social events are a good idea in church as long as the church doesnt use them in excess (besides, if you dont want to join spaghetti dinner and prefer to keep it about just the sermon, then dont go) I think its part of the joy and celebration of loving God as a group. Fellowship strengthens the faith. I cant possibly touch on all the subjects youve brought up here, but I would just like to write out some of my thoughts because I know God wants me engaged and discussing these matters. I surely know he isnt trying to keep me silent!

BRIT · #3 (**permalink**) 04-19-07, 07:38 AM

When adding or omitting things to the Lord’s church, we need to ask ourselves…..

Is It Worth The Risk Of Losing Our Soul?

In reply to this, I would like to add that I dont think God is going to deny a SOUL for doing something menial such as a woman speaking in church. On judgement day I just couldnt foresee him saying "Didnt you read 1 Corinthians 14 verses 34-35?! You were commanded not to talk in church..now you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven!!"
I think God has a keen discernment about the souls of his children and which rules are more bendable. At least I would hope so. I think God is more awesome than my mind can even paint him to be.
Furthermore, I did a little digging on that verse. Apparently it is questionable as to whether Paul even wrote it. Heres is a chunk from bible.org the article "Silent in churches" it is possible that
"Paul did not write the words at all; rather, they were an early marginal gloss (that is, a later editor’s addition written in the margin) subsequently inserted into the text"
and I also found a theory on the oppression of a possible feminism movement..
at any rate, something is not right with that verse and I dont think souls are damnable for talking in church..
this really got under my skin yesterday. Its a good thing, though. Tell me your thoughts.

GAParker · #4 (**permalink**) 04-20-07, 12:44 PM

Brit,

I appreciate you taking the time to address your concerns. I think you have raised some issues which are errantly rampant in the religious world today, particularly in this country.

I will first address your comments that women are equal to men: As far as the importance of their souls and the love that our Father has for them, I agree. However, if you truly care about the truth of God's word, you must understand that He created woman in the role of a "help meet" for man (His words, not mine), see Genesis 2:18. He also teaches us in Ephesians 5:22-24 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing". That being said, He is not teaching that the husband is the "king" or "dictator" of the woman, because he is taught to (Eph 5: 25) " Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" and (Eph 5:28) "So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." We all have been given roles to play while in this life. If you have an issue with this; it's not with "me", your issue is with God himself.

You also mention that this is "archaic" and not meant for today's times. It has only been approximately 2,000 years since the Gospel was delivered. The Old Law was in effect for approximately 1,500 years and in it's last years, had to be observed exactly as it was in it's first few years, in order to be pleasing to God. Time does not affect God's commands. We cannot choose which parts of the Gospel we care to observe and which parts we won't. Our Lord stated something very specific in John 12:48. "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

It far too common for individuals to approach God's word with the idea of "what do I want out of this?", or "what do I agree with?", "how can I make this better?" instead of "what did God, who created and will judge me, tell me He wants from me?.....Also, we all need to remember, God does not need our help. Per II Tim 3:16-17, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

On another point; when we don't like or want to abide by certain scriptures, we can't fall for the idea that if we can try and discredit it, then we don't have to comply with it. Though there are different versions of the bible, the basic truths that it teaches have been in place and intact since they were written. The problem "we" have, and that all of us fight to some degree I'm afraid, is the concept of "total submission" to Him.

And lastly: Using entertainment (spaghetti suppers, concerts, softball tournaments, etc) to add "numbers" to the church, is not anything you will fnd Jesus or the apostles doing. The plan was very simple: Teach the word; those that accept it and obey it, will be saved, then will bind themselves together into congregations, to strengthen one another, to worship God, and to spread his word to the lost. Those that don't accept and obey the gospel will be lost. The Lord's church is not meant to "entertain" us. Many will say having such things, will help attract people to the church, and maybe help save their souls. To this, I remind you; God does not need our help! We are to plant the seed (the gospel) and He will give the increase.

If the church was yours, you might do some things differently, and to be honest, if it was my church, I might also, BUT it is His church, and we must do things the way He desires, because He is the one who will judge us; thus we must live as closely as possible by the words He has taught us, and by the examples he left us, if we truly wish to have any hope.

Sincerely,
Gregg

BRIT · #5 (**permalink**) 04-20-07, 01:19 PM

I wonder if its even possible in this day and age to have the nuclear "untarnished" family of days ago. It seems society is getting used to the dysfunction that is common today. I am one of those people raised in a dysfunctional family. My parents divorced and were never part of the church even when we were a whole family. I have chosen Christ on my own and I am always trying to learn, understand, and strengthen my relationship with him. I must admit, some things in the bible offend me, set me back, shake my faith and get me confused. The very thing you brought up is one of them and so I was appreciative to have that subject broached because I must answer all of these questions so that I may be armed as a Christian. I agree with what you said about people picking and choosing what they want to hear and obey from scripture.. theres no doubt about that going on left and right.... thus the result of so many sects of religion (and thusly I am non-denominational). People want to doctor up the scripture to meet their personal desires.
I have such a hard time as an independent minded woman when it comes to things like women are to remain silent in church women are meant as a help mate to man etc etc
these things kinda hurt when I read them but I do understand your point that its not meant to be insulting, its Gods law and just isnt followed anymore. I see where you stand in taking every word as is. I just wonder how much of the bible is meddled with by man.
IE King James decides which books are in the bible and which are omitted?
Do you know anything about that?

so much to learn~~~~~~~BRIT

GAParker · #6 (**permalink**) 04-21-07, 12:44 PM

Brit,

It is obvious from your last response, that you truly are seeking the truth, and
that you have a heart that is open and can even self-analyze, which is something
that is very hard for most people (including myself at times).

I share your frustrations with the state of affairs in regards to current family life (especially in our own country), and have been a victim to them as well. HOWEVER, I assure you that it is possible to
still have the nuclear family that is taught in scripture. It takes two very dedicated individuals though.

I would love to correspond with you further, on any issue you would like. In case it will help, I have put
together a website of my own, which I maintain regularly, that addresses basic ideas, truths, and doctrine, using "only the Bible", and not man's ideas. It is www.justthetruth.net When you have time,
check it out and let me know what you think. There is also a link there, where you can contact me
directly, so that maybe we can have an open and continuing dialogue.

I will put together some information on the questions you had concerning the authenticity of the Bible,
and will send it to you. It is quite a lengthy subject, so please give me some time, so that I can present
you with the best information I can, to try and answer your concern.

Again, I thank you for your interest in the truth, as shown by the time you have taken to post your responses and by the obvious concern you show in them.

May God bless us all in this endeavor.

BRIT · #7 (**permalink**) 04-23-07, 11:02 AM

I will definately check out this website. Dont feel hurried, it may take me an entire lifetime to feel even partially informed. Talk to ya later!

GAParker · #8 (**permalink**) 05-23-07, 07:44 PM

Brit,

Sorry it took so long, but I have found some information that is very informative on understanding
how the Bible has come down to us, in tact. There is one that is extremely lengthy and one that is
a more condensed version. They are both too large a file to attach to this post, based on on website
settings. However, if you will email me at theparkerclan@sbcglobal.net and give me your email address,
I will send them directly to you.

Hope all is well with you.

Take care friend,

Gregg