Proverbs 10:19, "In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin; but he that refraineth his lips is wise."

There is no peripheral context for this verse. No word study alters its meaning. It must be understood exactly as it is stated.

Jesus and His Apostles followed Proverbs 10:19 when they spoke. Jesus spoke concisely, directly, and briefly upon all His topics, never spending more than a few short minutes on any one subject. Professional church talkers are to do the same, rather than pontificate for 30-50 miniutes at a stretch. Even in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus followed Proverbs 10:19.

Shelli.

Did all of the apostles really follow this proverb?

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


And how do you know by faith (where does it tell us in the Scripture) that Jesus never spent more than a few short minutes on any one subject?

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.


Any student of Scripture knows a singular word or verse in Scripture is not to be used to form a Theological Doctrine.

There is no doubt you are taking this completely out of context and trying to bind others where God has not bound.

Keeping it in context...

Pro 10:18 The one who conceals hatred has lying lips, and whoever utters slander is a fool.
Pro 10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.
Pro 10:20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver; the heart of the wicked is of little worth.
Pro 10:21 The lips of the righteous feed many, but fools die for lack of sense.

Actually you could keep the entire Proverb in context as it contrast the godly and the wicked. This in no way implies that a preacher that speaks for 30-50 minutes is in sin nor does it limit preaching to any particular length.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Acts 20:7 is a clear example of Apostle Paul violating Proverbs 10:19, and a young man was killed as a result.

The way we can see how Jesus spoke for only a few short minutes on any one topic is to get a little stopwatch, then use it to time the normal speaking speak while reading each of the topics Jesus spoke on. Sound like a good idea for someone who really wants an answer to the question about how much time He took? However, nobody ever does this, because there is too much pride and laziness in the Body, these days.

Please go ahead and notice that John 21:25 is referring to "other things which Jesus did," not the Words He spoke. Those are two different things, regardless of how creative people try to be to "rightly divide" Scripture.

It it, or is it not, a hermeneutic principle not to use a singular verse of singular word to devise a Theologic Doctrine? Got a yes or no answer ... ? (Much bigger smile.)

The context of the entire Proverbs 10 verses speaking about humanly spoken words does in no way alter the meaning of the properly translated word, #7230, "rob," abundance, great, huge, long, many, host, multitude, plenty. Or, maybe you can show how the context, by "rightly dividing," does indeed alter that translation ... ?

Any preacher who exhibits in his preaching the clear meaning of #7230 "rob" is indeed sinning. If you have a problem with that, do not argue with me. Talk to God about it.

I sense you are reluctant to see Scripture by mere observation, without adding your own expectations to it. May I pray for you about that ... ?

Shelli.

Shelli,

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it tell us that Paul was in violation of Proverbs. As I have previously shown, you have taken the one Scripture out of Proverbs and out of context. Furthermore you are using it in an effort to try to bind a man-made doctrine on others... which again, as I have shown, you came into this forum proclaiming it was improper to do such in your statement:

Any student of Scripture knows a singular word or verse in Scripture is not to be used to form a Theological Doctrine.

What Jesus did could very well be a lot more teaching and preaching (speaking words)... we have no way of knowing exactly what it was He did. Whatever it was, we do know that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

I think you need to ask yourself this question Shelli. You are the one that does not seem to comply with your own philosophy. But I'll answer you. There is no yes or no answer to it because it all depends on the passage. Where in the Bible does it tell us that we have to use hermeneutic principle?

Again, you preach that it should not be done, but you yourself are doing it. You are yanking one verse out of context to try to prove a point that it has nothing to do with.


You have some really distorted views of the Scriptures and you have a lot to learn. We cannot allow you to continue with your false teaching here in the forum. You have clearly come her to disrupt the truth and are apparently influenced by Satan.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

__________________
Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

__________________
Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

I hadn't seen this thread before. I wonder if the OP ever timed how long it took Jesus to preach the 'sermon on the mount' ????

Brother Don...are you still laughing ?

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If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV

What she said has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard... It ranks up there with the first prayer I ever did at the Lord's Supper. In front of 700 people I pray..."Dear Lord we thank you for this unlevel bread......" (). What this girl said tops that!

I would like to know how long Acts 8:35 took?

I did find something that she would like:

__________________
Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

"Unlevel bread"

And that video !!! I couldn't listen fast enough !

__________________
If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV

__________________
Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

__________________
If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV

The cool part is that He was speaking to accomplish purposes both at that time and in the distant future.

I've only been in the pulpit a few times, but I've never gone over 25 minutes.

On the other hand, Paul preached so long that some guy fell out a window. Sometimes the reasons for why a thing is true take more than a few minutes to explain. (These reasons are generally edification for those who already accept the truth. Those who have already decided that they won't accept will go on as if the speech had never been made.)

This reminds me about a response a deacon made in a discussion about services running long. Some people have to leave for work right at the regular end of services and can't stay longer.

His response: "If you have to go, go." It is not written in stone that we must sit through the entirety of a pulpit lesson if there is a legitimate demand on our time elsewhere. It is the man who does not support his family who is worse than an infidel, and not the man who nips out five minutes early so that he can get to the job that supports his family.

Today's sermon went 38.10 Title: "A Grief Observed"

Did I violate Proverbs 10:19

__________________
Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

Believe it or not, I pointed out to our present preacher that he does not go long enough! We start our worship service at approximately 10.30 and used to end at 11.30. He gets us out at about 11.15 to 11.20, and that is after our songleader added another song to our service!
He (the preacher) also teaches the bible class before the worship service, it is about 1/2 hour.

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If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV

We shouldn't complain, but I have heard some LOOONG winded sermons before.

To me the time is not the issue, it is what is being said. I attended a Gospel meeting where every sermon neared 2 hours, but it seemed so short because the speaker had prepared and had a tremendous amount of meat. Other times I have heard 20-25 minute sermons that felt like two hours because there was no meat and the speaker just repeated himself.

I replaced a preacher who spoke about an hour at a time. I keep mine to about 30-40 mins. I was told that I should speak longer, however I feel that I might delve into the speaking alot but saying little category.

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John 6:67-68: "Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, 'Would ye also go away?' Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.'"

That is true. Here is a test, for a sermon just read the "Sermon on the Mount" and see how long Jesus spoke that one time.

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John 6:67-68: "Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, 'Would ye also go away?' Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.'"

If it is a sin to preach to long I want to know how long is to long so that I will not be violating God's word. If 30 minutes is a violation of God's word then how about 25, 20, or 15? Where does God tell us what is an acceptable length of time for a sermon? Would God had not been specific in what he wants as far as length in a sermon if it is such a grievous sin that one would be punished with death because a preacher they were listening to violated Proverbs 10:19? Remember the one who was punished here (according to Shelli) is not even the one that is in violation. We also must remember that this one was not punished with death because Paul then went down and raised him from the dead.

Maybe Shelli would be interrested in my 5 minutes of Bible study each morning on the radio. Is that what I should be doing each Sunday from the pulpit?

Here is an article I wrote a couple of years ago on this very idea.