I have a question that kind of follows this discussion, I'm in a theology class at a Christian College of the Bible and the professor is talking about how we make our anthropology and soteriology into dualistic or holistic doctrines. Basically he is saying that we should think of our bodies and spirits as one thing and never separate. So when our bodies die our spirit dies also, then Jesus resurrects us again also still as one. He said that the soul is the temporary thing that dies with the body. I am wondering if there is some real solid scripture that talks about this. The scripture my professor uses is mainly Paul talking about how apart from Christ we're dead.

He is putting a lot of emphasis on that death is a real and total thing that happens to our body and soul and spirit and only through Christ we are resurrected. I haven't asked him yet how hell comes to play in this. If we totally die and only live if we accept Jesus why is there a need for hell? PLease help, my sister and I are totally freaking out and trying to understand this.

I would first suggest you read this thread.

http://www.bibletruthforums.com/thre...hlight=soul%2C

Look up the verses and much of them will answer your questions.

Please let me know if this helps any. I will give you an answer but in the meantime, I think this could give you some reading.

You might also want to ask your professor about hell and get his response. Just listen to him and ask questions, then come back and let us know what he says. We can address them more completely and will also understand the root of his beliefs better.

If you do not wish to do this, it is fine but it would help the study somewhat and you, so you can know where he went wrong in his ideas.

No need to freak out.

Here is an illustration directly from Jesus on where both the righteous and the unrighteous go upon death:

Luke 16:19-26
19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be fed with the (crumbs) that fell from the rich man's table; yea, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted, and thou art in anguish.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us.
ASV

Hades means the abode of the dead.

It is where Jesus went after He died on the cross:

Acts 2:31
he foreseeing (this) spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

And it is where the sinful angels are sent until judgment:

2 Peter 2:4
For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,
YLT

2 Peter 2:4-5
If God did not spare the angels who sinned (but sent them to Tartarus, delivering them into chains of darkness, holding them for judgment);
(from "The Everlasting Gospel")

Very simple. Tell your professor to read his Bible.

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

Well said brother Dave. Between what he said and the thread I gave you a link to, this should answer any questions you have.

Please email Dave or myself if you have any other questions or need to know more on this.

The two ways to deal with discussions like the one the prof brought up:

(a) Challenge him to go into all of the Scriptures that deal on the subject, and show why each and every one of them points either to his doctrine or to no doctrine in particular. Many doctrines get their start from some kind of idle speculation, misinterpretation of an isolated verse, or some other human seed, and get perpetuated in part because the proponent can trot out a subset of the verses that touch on the subject, and show that the verses in this subset do not conflict with the new idea.

(b) Challenge him to show how his doctrine affects our Christian walk in a way that is different from that of competing doctrines. If I have to abstain from alcohol, easy women, gambling, etc., under both doctrines, then the need to adopt his doctrine vs. the one I already hold loses much of its urgency. My salvation depends on my conduct in this body, and not on whether I accept some idea that has no effect on my conduct.

Thank you everyone for your answers, they helped a lot. I emailed my professor on these questions because our class had already moved past the subject but he hasn't answered me yet. If it helps to understand what he's saying, he is teaching from McClendon's book "Doctrine." Maybe my sister and I misunderstood what he was saying? I'm not sure but we really appreciated all of the verses, and now feel like we have a solid backing on why we've always believed that way.

God Bless

We must praise God for His grace in that He has given us His Word and it is knowable, is able to be learned and one does not have to have a PhD to understand it.

We would like to keep studying with you about other questions you have. I pray this has helped you and your sister see we respect the scriptures and may be able to assist you in other beliefs also that are common to man but are unique to God's Word.

I hope to hear from you what your professor says. He might be surprised at your response. There is a chance he has never been challenged on this topic because of his "status", by a student. He will also be surprised at your use of the scriptures, another unique aspect of people. Most argue opinion based reasoning and is a stretch of a rubber band to the point of breaking.

Also, realize that doctrine is of the Jehovah Witnesses...where they claim that the body is the soul, so when the body dies, the soul does also.

But as alrady pointed out by scripture, such is not the case.

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Romans 16:16 1 Thess. 5:17 1 Thess. 5:22 1 Tim. 6:12 2 Tim 2:15

This a good verse showing the three parts of who we are.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Steven,

How do you see the relationship between the soul and the spirit of man?

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

As we see in Genesis, God made man in His image, this is the soul eternal. He also breathed in man the breath of life, like the animals. When the body dies, the body becomes dust and the soul continues.

Does that answer your question? I thought you would know my answer since we have been in many studies on this together.

This is a pretty good article about it that goes into more detail.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~sharonch...Soul%20(2).htm

Never really dedicated a whole lot of thought to it. There is only one eternal entity within our being that will go on after death that I am aware of. This eternal entity appears to me to be referred to as both our soul and our spirit in various places within scripture. I have always considered the references in scripture to the spirit within man to be referring to either the soul or the disposition of man. I was curious what your take on it was.

This is something I have never really dug into in great depth but have run into it in various discussions I have had with denominational folks out there in cyber land.

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

I know what you mean. I still find it makes me go hummm, at times. As the article I post points, it depends upon the context and the translation of the word.

Maybe I am wrong on some of this and would welcome anything that may need pointing out to me. So long as I am forever in the kingdom with Christ, I do not care what he does with any part of me or how it happens.

Well,

There are two destinations ahead of us depending on how we live

We know our physical bodies aren't going along for the ride.

Obviously there is a part of us that is spirit, (not physical), that will go on. The question becomes is this part of us that is not physical and goes on forever a single entity or a dual?

I only know of one.

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

I see it like this, the soul is spirit and is eternal, like God. There is also "life" (which is on occasion called spirit also in the bible). This is what makes the body alive. Animals do not have a soul but they have life and a body.

Bingo

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

If the soul and spirit of man is the same thing, what do we do with Hebrews 4.12 ?

" For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow,"

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If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV

Yes, this is another example where they are shown as two different things but really the context is the defining part of this.

Sometimes the spirit is the soul in a context but one thing is for sure, the soul is a spirit, like God.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV


Think of the word spirit meaning the disposition of the individual. People can be mean spirited or good spirited which is an attitude or principle that inspires, animates, or pervades thought, feeling, or action. The word of God can divide a man's soul from his disposition and discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Rather than looking at the terms "soul" and "spirit" as two completely separate things, perhaps we should view this is an accumulation of terms meant to express the ability of God to penetrate and expose the inward mental nature of an individual.

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

Yes, I agree with that. Flesh and blood does not inherit eternal life, but the soul does, therefore the soul must be spirit. And, as pointed out before, man is made in the image of God, and God is Spirit.

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If we live in Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5.25 NJKV