Study: Can you lose your salvation? - Page 3 - Christian Forum - Bible Forum - Christian Religion Bible Study Forum

Steven Rasberry · #51 02-04-09, 11:33 AM

Are you disputing what I posted or agreeing? Sorry, I guess I am a bit slow. I see you have a bunch of verses that I agree with of course, being that they are scripture...It seemed earlier that you were saying that man cannot loose their state of salvation. Did I misunderstand you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

Jesus Said be ye therefore Perfect Even as Your Heavenly Father which is in Heaven is Perfect.

- If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2:29 (KJV)

Let no man deceive you

We know that if we are Righteous as God is Righteous we cannot Sin,

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
1 John 3:7 (KJV)

God is no Sinner, Romans 8:9 Tells us that if we Walk in the Flesh That God cannot Dwell in you, Because of Sin, Sin Seperates man From God.

your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
Isaiah 59:2 (KJV)

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: , John 3:6 (KJV) - we cannot Sin , is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid[/b] . (Gal 2:17 (KJV) (1 Jn 3:7 (KJV)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin , because he is born of God. (1 Jn 3:9 (KJV)

For his Seed Is in us, which is the Word of God Mk 4:12 (KJV) , This is Why Jesus Said That which is born of the flesh is flesh ; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit . 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3 (KJV)

And you Cannot SIN 1 John 3:9 (KJV) 1 John 5:18 (KJV) , And Be Born Again , Nor is a Sinner Going to Enter in, Jesus said You must be Born Again to Enter the Kingdom of Heaven

If you Walk in the Flesh , The seed that was Sowed Are they which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are Choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. Luke 8:14 (KJV)

If you Walk after the Flesh your Still The same Old Sinner with the Old Man of Sin with the Old Deeds of the Body, And Unrepented, Unchanged he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

If we are Born in the Spirit we are a New Creature In Jesus , In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ. Col 2:11 (KJV)

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God , who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:12 (KJV)

Before you can be Born of God, Every one Must Crucify the Old Man of Sin, Because If you are Born of GOD you Cannot SIN 1 Jn 3:9 (KJV) 1 Jn 5:18 (KJV)

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (Ro 6:6 (KJV) - Ro 6:9 (KJV) ) -

We are buried with him by baptism into Jesus death in the Resurrection of Christ, By Faith, By the Operation of GOD, We have been planted together in the likeness of his death, Ro 6:5 (KJV) Crucifying The Old Man of Sin, Putting To Death our OLD Flesh (we are Free from Sin-Ro 8:10 (KJV) If Christ be in you the BODY is Dead because of SIN) , That the Body of sin Might be Destroyed , That we Should not Serve Sin, IF we Be DEAD with Christ We Believe we Shall Also Live with him, Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

For this Cause, After the operation of God, We Raised up in the likeness of his resurrection ,Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God ;

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb 10:19-22 (KJV)

And if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:1-3 (KJV)

For if ye live after the flesh ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:10-14 (KJV)

Eph 4:22 (KJV) -That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

2 Cor 7:1 (KJV) - Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Steven Rasberry · #52 02-04-09, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

Yes a Big misunderstanding

For this Cause Because all Has Sinned, If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:10

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9 (KJV)

Now, Jesus Died for Me You and the Whole World, There is No Work we can do, we cannot Forgive our Own Sins,

And by this, We Come to Jesus By Faith, And We Repent and Sin no more John 8:11 (KJV) and by this we are Forgiven and we are Under Grace

(by grace ye are saved Eph 2:5 (KJV)

But when you Remain in Your Sins, you are NOT under Grace, you are Still In your Sins, As it is Written Grace and Sin Does not Abound Ro 6:1 (KJV)

Do you think a person can be saved and safe in the Lord, then when tempted and begin to sin again so loose their salvation?

Steven Rasberry · #53 02-04-09, 12:39 PM

Can you please answer my question, yes or no.

I know the verses you quote. I will address them but please just give me a yes or no answer.

James · #54 02-04-09, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

but to Repent and Sin no more, All the People Jesus Healed he Told them, Go and Sin no more John 5:14 (KJV) , And when he Forgave Sins, Jesus Told them Go and Sin no more-John 8:10, You cannot Remain in Sin and think you are Going to Heaven- Gal 5:19 (KJV) , Because if you Remain in Sin you are not under Grace Ro 6:1 (KJV) , Because Grace and Sin does not Abound,

I'm a slow learner so could you explain if you are trying to say that when we repent, we should not sin anymore? Or are you saying that once we repent, we will not sin anymore? Or are you saying that if we sin after we repent then we didn't really repent?

It would be helpful if you could explain in your own words what you really are saying. Scripture is good but saying what you think it means is showing everyone that you really understand.

I;m not trying to be critical, just trying to understand.

Steven Rasberry · #55 02-04-09, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

I'm a slow learner so could you explain if you are trying to say that when we repent, we should not sin anymore? Or are you saying that once we repent, we will not sin anymore? Or are you saying that if we sin after we repent then we didn't really repent?

It would be helpful if you could explain in your own words what you really are saying. Scripture is good but saying what you think it means is showing everyone that you really understand.

I;m not trying to be critical, just trying to understand.

Me too!

mountravlr · #56 02-04-09, 04:32 PM

1 John chapter 1 deals with the issue.
After reading it, it becomes obvious that an unrepentant sinner remains alienated from God, whether a baptized believer or not, Isaiah 59:1-2,
and is "worse off", 2 Pet. 2:20-22.

James · #57 02-04-09, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

Jesus had the Same feelings we Have, and he did not Sin, he made a example for us to follow, God gave us his Only Son, His Only Son, To come on this Earth, to Die for Us and the Whole World Salvation, God so loved the Word, that is The Past

This is a very good statement. Jesus did not sin because He was God in the flesh. He was the perfect sacrifice. We, on the other hand, are not perfect. Even though we are Christians, we still sin. This is why we have to continually ask for forgiveness. The only way we will become perfect is when we get to Heaven. But we must strive for perfection by trying not to sin.

There is no one living on this earth, presently, that can go through live without sinning in some way.

Tell me is this right or wrong?

Steven Rasberry · #58 02-05-09, 12:26 AM

Elijah_101
If we cannot sin, why are christians warned about temptation? Why be warned about anything that is impossible to do?

Please give me a yes or no answer to my last question. Scripture is great but I do not know how you take those scriptures. You seem to be saying both sides.

Steven Rasberry · #59 02-05-09, 11:29 AM

Elijah,
We agree with the verses of course but do not know what you believe by them. Please cease the kind of answers where you do not really answer. Please also answer my questions. The format is to state your position and THEN give scripture to back it up. Sometimes only scripture is fine but in the studies you are taking part in, you must answer the pointed questions as well as we must answer yours.

Again, this is another warning. You must study TOGETHER, not just buckshot a bunch of verses that do not answer the question, nor do you state something, receive a question and then not really answer clearly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

Really?

And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David
Luke 1:30-32 (KJV) Luke 1:35 (KJV)

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God Mark 1:1 (KJV)

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:15-16 (KJV)

Jesus is the Son of God

As Jesus said here, "I am the Son of God" John 10:36 (KJV)

Even the Devils Knew Jesus is the Son of God Mark 3:11 (KJV)

What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? Mark 5:7 (KJV)

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of GodLuke 4:41 (KJV)

Even when Jesus Died the centurion Said, Truly this man was the Son of God.Mark 15:39 (KJV)

As Jesus said Here

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
John 5:19-21 (KJV)

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:30 (KJV)

I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:18 (KJV)

If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God
John 8:54 (KJV)

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God
John 13:3 (KJV)

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:10 (KJV)

I and my Father are one.
John 10:30 (KJV)

James · #60 02-05-09, 11:33 AM

I and my Father are one.

I see no point in discussing any further with you. I've gone to other forums where you are posting and see that you consistantly posting that same way here. You can post a lot of scriptures but you don't show any head knowledge.

I came to this site to learn more about the Bible and see if I was learning the Word in the correct way. This world is full of people that have read the Bible and have gotton 'their own interpretation'. People who have their own interpreation tend to be arguemenative, rebellious, and disruptive.

I admit that I don't have as much knowledge as the teacher here have or the patience to put up with hard headed people. I hope to gain that knowledge at this site.

Reading anymore of your posts or discussing anything with you is non-productive for me to grow as a Christian. Now if you want to learn the truth, I'll be happy to help you. Otherwise, I will ignore you but pray for you.

Steven Rasberry · #61 02-05-09, 11:52 AM

Elijah,
Do you see by James' response that your way is fruitless? You are bringing shame on yourself.

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Please understand that satan quoted scripture to Jesus in Matthew 4 but it did not mean it was used correctly.

Scripture is often quoted by false teachers but they twist them to their agenda and are not honest with their use.

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

So when asked a question, answer it and THEN give the scriptures. Also, this is your last warning. Please take note of these things before your next post.

You cannot go away from here glorifying that you were persecuted or will be blessed by God because you were rejected. We are rejecting the teaching and your unwilling attitude to answer simple and basic questions when being challenged by what you say. God said we are to look at the fruit to see if it is from God. So far your fruit is lacking Truth or clarity. There is no honor in this kind of rejection since it by comparing your statements to God's Word we find you lacking and seriously in need of help.

Please study with us and we can help grow in the knowledge of our Lord together. Otherwise, this is your last warning before you are banned.

Before you post again, answer my questions and stop ignoring them.

Steven Rasberry · #62 02-06-09, 08:49 AM

Good job answering finally. I greatly appreciate it.

You are very close but there is more that God has said about this matter.

What did Jesus say in Mark 16:16?

When asked of Peter what they must do to be saved, what were they told in Acts 2?

When Paul was before Jesus, he was told to go to Ananias and he would be told what he MUST do. What was he told?

When Phillip was teaching the eunuch about Jesus, what did he ask to be done if he believe with all his heart?

Now if God asks of us something, in light of Ephesians 2:10, are there things that He expects of us that are not our works but His?

Can we be saved outside of Jesus and His death?

I look forward to your clear and honest, from the scriptures, answer just like you answered before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elijah_101

This is my answer

For by grace are ye saved through faith

With out faith how can you Believe?

this is our Work we Believe that Jesus is

so faith without works is dead James 2:26

Let me Explain

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

Now, Jesus Died for Me You and the Whole World, There is No Work we can do, we cannot Forgive our Own Sins,

We Come To Jesus By Faith We Believe that Jesus is the SON of GOD, and Repent of all of our Sinful Works of the Flesh,

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24

And by this, We Come to Jesus By Faith, And We Repent and Sin no more John 8:11 and by this we are Forgiven and we are Under Grace

(by grace ye are saved

Eph 2:5

Repentance worketh twards Salvation 2 Corinthians 7:10

mountravlr · #63 02-06-09, 11:14 AM

Ah at last some straight answers from elijah!
If Jesus said in Matt. 11:28-29 to "come, take, and learn", then are the faithful not obligated to do it? How about Luke 13:3? And Rom. 10:9-10? And Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16?
Do simple statements of fact mean what they say: Isaiah 59:1-2, Rom. 3:23, and 1 John 1:6-10?
We understand that John was writing to baptized believers.

"Works" of God, obeyed by men: John 6:28-29, Gal. 5:6, i.e. Faith is a "work", and baptism is a "working of God", Col. 2:12 (ESV).

Steven Rasberry · #64 02-07-09, 11:17 AM

Elijah,
You need to keep studying because when addressing Christians, the scriptures state this:

1 John 1:7-10
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Christians can sin but so long as we try with all our heart to not sin and if we do, we have a repentant heart and admit our sins to God, God will continue to forgive us. He will remain with us.

According to this verse, the teaching you profess, makes it a lie. Please be more careful about what you so strongly profess when scripture conflicts.

You are correct in pointing out verse 5. Because God is light and has no darkness at all, we have Christ. He is the perfect one FOR US. That is why he is our mediator and High Priest.

One such example is this:

Acts 8:21-25
21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”
24 Then Simon answered and said, “Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me.”
25 So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans

On a congregational level:

Revelation 2:5
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.