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  #51  
Old 03-08-09, 05:10 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by David Hersey View Post
Rapture advocates believe and teach that Jesus will return to earth in the flesh to reign from Jerusalem for a thousand or so years. That is going to be a little difficult in that Paul taught that Jesus would never be "known again" after the flesh. (2 Corinthians 5:16).


Rapture advocates teach the rapture “in the clouds” with the Lord “in the air” by the righteous separates them from the wicked down on the earth. But Jesus taught that there is no separation between the “wheat” and the “tares,” between “the good” fish and “the bad” fish until “the end of the world” (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, 47-50).

Also, Jesus taught that the “sheep” and the “goats” will not be separated until they go into “life eternal” or “everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:31-46).

Rapture-believing preachers say that there will be two resurrections from the dead, the first of the righteous only, the second of the wicked, many years later. But, biblically, there are not two resurrections: there will be “a resurrection both of the just and of the unjust” (Acts 24:15), but the just will not come out of their graves 1000 years before the unjust. Instead, the just will come out of their graves on “the last day” (John 6:39,40,44,54). There can be no days after “the last day,” much less 1000 years.

Not only did Jesus specify “the last day,” but even “the hour” in that “last day” in which, not the just only, but “all those in the graves will hear his voice, and will come out: those who have done good to a resurrection of life; but those who have done evil things to a resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:28-29).

The rapture is a myth and fairy tale in no way supported by the total body of scripture. The only way one can arrive at this contrived doctrine is to cherry pick various scriptures from the holy writ and manufacture it without regard to the teachings of the totality of scripture pertaining to the topic of the resurrection.
Okay, I have a question here. Now that I'm in a safe enough environment to actually ask it, LOL

The Bible does speak of two resurrections...

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges {and} to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark {or} permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed (happy, to be envied) and holy (spiritually whole, of unimpaired innocence and proved virtue) is the person who takes part (shares) in the first resurrection! Over them the second death exerts no power {or} authority, but they shall be ministers of God and of Christ (the Messiah), and they shall rule along with Him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his place of confinement,
Rev 20:8 And he will go forth to deceive {and} seduce {and} lead astray the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth--Gog and Magog--to muster them for war; their number is like the sand of the sea. Amplified

Does the second resurrection take place after the 1,000 yrs. And is it from the 12 tribes???

See that never made sense to me. I believe that I will live through the tribulation. I am sealed by the Holy Spirit. His seal is upon me too.

2 Cor 1:22 [He has also appropriated and acknowledged us as His by] putting His seal upon us and giving us His [Holy] Spirit in our hearts as the security deposit {and} guarantee [of the fulfillment of His promise].

Eph 1:13 In Him you also who have heard the Word of Truth, the glad tidings (Gospel) of your salvation, and have believed in {and} adhered to {and} relied on Him, were stamped with the seal of the long-promised Holy Spirit.

Now since I know that I will live through and be persecuted during the tribulation, and more than likely die for my faith in Jesus Christ, please explain to me, if you will what this other resurrection is in reference to??

Unless perhaps, it is the resurrection of those who do not believe in Christ? Those that are destined for for the lake of fire.

Rev 20:9 And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress (camp) of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them. [II Kings 1:10-12; Ezek. 38:2, 22.]
Rev 20:10 Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence {and} from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 I [also] saw the dead, great and small; they stood before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged (sentenced) by what they had done [their whole way of feeling and acting, their aims and endeavors] in accordance with what was recorded in the books.
Rev 20:13 And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried {and} their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works].
Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

So if my understanding is correct, there are two resurrections. The Lord separates the wheat from the tares.

Matt 13:29 But he said, No, lest in gathering the wild wheat (weeds resembling wheat), you root up the [true] wheat along with it.
Matt 13:30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will say to the reapers, Gather the darnel first and bind it in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my granary.

Matt 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one,
Matt 13:39 And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close {and} consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels.
Matt 13:40 Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age.
Matt 13:41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity {and} act wickedly,
Matt 13:42 And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping {and} wailing and grinding of teeth.
Matt 13:43 Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, {and} let him consider {and} perceive {and} understand by hearing.


Steph
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  #52  
Old 03-08-09, 05:42 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Steven Rasberry View Post
Hello and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. One thing you should know about the church, we will believe it if the bible teaches it but as you say, the rapture, in the sense those that hold to Calvin's false teaching is concerned, does not exist. You seem to be honest with searching the Word to come to this conclusion in light of so many teaching it.

I am curious about something. You state above that God answered you. How does God speak to us today so that we may have knowledge, guidance and form faith?

Sorry to be a bit of topic but it will help me understand you and how you approach the study of God's Word if I know.
John 10:3 The watchman opens the door for this man, and the sheep listen to his voice {and} heed it; and he calls his own sheep by name and brings (leads) them out.

John 10:4 When he has brought his own sheep outside, he walks on before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.

John 10:16 And I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring {and} impel those also; and they will listen to My voice {and} heed My call, and so there will be [they will become] one flock under one Shepherd.

John 10:27 The sheep that are My own hear {and} are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.


Sometimes, I hear God's voice. Most of the time, I hear Scriptures running through my head. Other times, I get this gutt impression of yes or no or that something just isn't right.

God then gives me the Word to confirm it. And if I am still unsure that it is from the Lord, I will ask for further confirmation and the Lord will confirm it through another believer.

Sometimes, I'll get the same passage of Scripture over and over again, not as an answer to prayer but the Lord trying to tell me something. But usually when that happens, then I'll start praying and asking Him what He's trying to show me.

Wisdom, knowledge, understanding and discernment. I pray for it constantly.

Oh, and sometimes He gives me dreams. When God gives me dreams, they always come to pass. Almost all of them are dreams about the End Times. Some are about spiritual warfare and I'll start praying in my sleep and wake up finishing the prayer in Jesus' name.

Sometimes, I have prayed and prayed and prayed about something that is disturbing me and I'll get the answer in a dream. Something in that dream will trigger a key word to a Scripture verse and I'll have to go and do some searching.

Normal dreams, I dream in black and white. When God is trying to warn me of something I dream in color.

For instance, when I dream of men in black sunglasses, I know these men are not of God and they are dangerous, either spiritually or physically. I've had several attempts on my life from cults in FL. And I've had threats since I've been in VA. Ole Slew foot keeps trying to finish me off, God keeps delivering me.

God Bless,

Steph
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  #53  
Old 03-08-09, 06:37 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Rasberry View Post
Hello and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. One thing you should know about the church, we will believe it if the bible teaches it but as you say, the rapture, in the sense those that hold to Calvin's false teaching is concerned, does not exist. You seem to be honest with searching the Word to come to this conclusion in light of so many teaching it.

I am curious about something. You state above that God answered you. How does God speak to us today so that we may have knowledge, guidance and form faith?

Sorry to be a bit of topic but it will help me understand you and how you approach the study of God's Word if I know.
I'm sorry, I didn't completely answer your question.

As for how I approach the study of God's Word, His Word teaches me that He will teach me.

John 14:23 Jesus answered, If a person [really] loves Me, he will keep My word [obey My teaching]; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (abode, special dwelling place) with him.
John 14:24 Anyone who does not [really] love Me does not observe {and} obey My teaching. And the teaching which you hear {and} heed is not Mine, but [comes] from the Father Who sent Me.
John 14:25 I have told you these things while I am still with you.
John 14:26 But the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, Standby), the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in My name [in My place, to represent Me and act on My behalf], He will teach you all things. And He will cause you to recall (will remind you of, bring to your remembrance) everything I have told you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby) comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth Who comes (proceeds) from the Father, He [Himself] will testify regarding Me.

John 16:7 However, I am telling you nothing but the truth when I say it is profitable (good, expedient, advantageous) for you that I go away. Because if I do not go away, the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you [into close fellowship with you]; but if I go away, I will send Him to you [to be in close fellowship with you].
John 16:8 And when He comes, He will convict {and} convince the world {and} bring demonstration to it about sin and about righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God) and about judgment:
John 16:9 About sin, because they do not believe in Me [trust in, rely on, and adhere to Me];
John 16:10 About righteousness (uprightness of heart and right standing with God), because I go to My Father, and you will see Me no longer;
John 16:11 About judgment, because the ruler (evil genius, prince) of this world [Satan] is judged {and} condemned {and} sentence already is passed upon him.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit, would testify of Him. That the Spirit of Truth, is the Holy Spirit and that He would teach us and not only that recall to our remembrance that things that the Lord had taught us.

So when I am studying the Word, I ask the Lord to have His Holy Spirit teach me.

I also have a KJV, an Amplified, and a Strong's concordance and I tear it up. There have been times when I've gotten up at 4 in the morning and kept at it until dark, without even thinking about eating, LOL!

Now, the Lord told me that the NT and the OT agree. That's how you find out if something is taken out of context. The NT fulfills the OT. Therefore, if you can only find one reference to it in the NT, you can almost always go to the OT prophesies and find out if the Lord said something about it there. And vice versa.

I was also taught to study the Word in such away that if something was questionable, try to disprove it taking Scripture in context. If it is disprovable, something is wrong.

For instance, somebody posted on a forum that God could be male or female based on a word in the Hebrew that literally can be masculine or feminine. I couldn't find any references in the OT. However, in the NT, Jesus stated

John 14:9 Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize {and} know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?

So in spite of the many references to Father, we know undoubtably that Jesus is male and so is His Father because He said "seen Me" has "seen the Father".

I hope I answered that thoroughly.

Steph
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  #54  
Old 03-14-09, 11:08 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by possumliving View Post

The Bible does speak of two resurrections...
It sure does Steph. The first resurrection which renders the second one powerless is our resurrection from the watery grave of baptism. Notice the bolded words in the scripture below:

Romans 6:4-5

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
KJV

That is the first resurrection. There is only one more resurrection coming.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
KJV

Notice it says "all" who are in the grave. Notice they "all" will receive either the resurrection of life or damnation.

Here is a link to more thorough explanation of that.

http://www.granbychurchofchrist.org/...allOfSatan.htm
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  #55  
Old 03-31-09, 12:48 PM
 
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

No there will not be a rapture of any sort........
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  #56  
Old 03-31-09, 08:59 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by NIGHTMARE View Post
No there will not be a rapture of any sort........
Correct
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  #57  
Old 05-09-09, 06:27 PM
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Re: Will there be a Rapture followed by an earthly reign of Jesus?

The greatest danger of the rapture doctrine is that those who believe it ...
Quote:
Matthew 25:1-12 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
... will not be prepared to endure the tribulation they expect to occur after the rapture. It is a classic escape mentality - betting their eternal salvation that they would be raptured before facing the difficult choices in enduring the tribulation. They expect the rapture at any moment (always has since the beginning of the false doctrine by the early Evangelicals) so they do not feel the need to develop the personal characteristics to faithfully endure tribulation - if they miss the rapture then they feel they can then quickly make up for their shortcommings and be ready for the next event: the left-behind second-second chance mentality. They fail to realize that if they are left behind - "oops I guess I wasn't ready enough for the Lord to rapture me this time, but the next ride out is only 3.5 years away so I can tighten up morally and be ready then"; that they are far more likely to die well before then and have no chance to be left-behind and have another chance to get right with God.
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