Hello, My name is Neil. I have returned to the church after many years of living in the world without Jesus in my life. I was once a member of the Church, but left after divorce. It was not a scriptural divorce so found myself disfellowshiped from the church. About 3 years ago i remarried a wonderful lady and converted her to Christ. She was baptized in the Christian or instrumental church and i went forward and repented and joined that church as well. My problem is i don't like the instrumental music so have tried to join two non instrumental churches in my area with the same results. They tell us we must divorce to be members of the church because we are living in sin. Help what can i do? I can't divorce my wonderful wife so are we doomed?

Hi Neil and welcome to the forum.

I moved your post to it's own thread so that we would not derail Helen's introduction thread.

Unfortunately you have a very dangerous situation to overcome Neil. There is not going to be an easy way to get through this. God is very clear about divorce and remarriage... as Jesus stated...

Mat 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

If your divorce was indeed unscriptural and you remarried, then you see the situation that you have placed you and your new wife in. Unfortunately there is only one way to cure this. It is much better to suffer through the emotions that might be brought about by doing the right thing than to have to suffer eternally for not doing the right thing.

I encourage you to speak with the elders in that local church of Christ congregation to help you through this in the proper manner.

As far as where you need to be worshiping... this information may help you better understand how we should worship in spirit and in truth, which would be without mechanical instruments. It's not a matter of what we like, but rather what pleases and glorifies God.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

Thank you for getting my post in the right place, also for your prompt reply. I have talked to the elders in two local churches and they only told me my marriage is not right. They only hinted that another divorce was about all i could do. Can you tell me how others have handled this, perhaps put me in touch with someone who has been through the same situation. I realize two perhaps three souls are involved so i really need advise.

Dear Neil, If one divorce was bad two can only be worse.My husband and I were in a not unsimilar situation,no need to go into any detail yet but if necessary would explain further.
The Lord knows the situation now and he will make everything clear to you.
His Word is a light to our feet.Lay it all before Him and wait.In quietness and confidence shall be your strenghth.You may have to take a back seat for some time but no need to run away.You will take the burden with you.As for the instruments they must realy get you down when you are already so heavy laden,but this seems to me just to be put in your path as a distraction from the real problem.
Helen

Thanks for your input Helen. I am coming to the same conclusion, if my first marriage ended badly in divorce many many years ago back in 1987 to have recently found my first true love, less than 3 years ago, and have helped her to find salvation through going to and being baptized into Christ how can my divorcing her be the right and only thing to do. If as we are told that we are living in adultery can't God forgive us without man (The Church) tearing us apart?

Neil,
your post does pose a few problems,God does forgive but he does not condone sin in our lives. It is good that your wife has a personal relationship with the Lord and baptized.This would be, not because but ,inspite of what happened. The church is not your enemy it is the body of Christ here on earth.
What a testimony you have opportunity to gain. Don't stay on a high horse ,to many people will get hurt when you fall. Be still and know that I Am GOD.
in Christian Love Helen

Dear Helen, thanks for the advise, i am really not trying to put my own bad judgment on the church to bear for me. I am only praying for and looking for what to do and asking for you good brothers and sisters in Christ to help me through it with the least amount of hurt for all involved. I don't want to make a bad situation even worse. The final answer will be from God.

Divorce is not unforgivable. God will forgive it if you are sincere, people unfortunately are not so generous. If you are already a Christian and you can be forgiven for adultery, murder, etc. why do people think you can not be for a divorce. I agree with the previous post about 2 divorces. How can getting another divorce "fix" the problem if it was wrong to get the first one?

Neil,
Christ is the answer indeed,and I pray that you continue in fellowship and continue to show Gods grace and mercy to those who are in authority over you.As I said before we have been there and the ground as it were was well tilled over but now we can all praise the Lord ,and the fruit of the spirit is seen in our lives.
This is now a great exercise of your faith.Nothing is impossible for our God.Trust Him.
Helen

I believe the one thing we are overlooking here is repentance. Forgiveness does not come without repentance. To repent means to turn away from... change ones mind. To repent of sin is to walk away from it... no longer be in that sin.

Luke 13:3, 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2Cor 12:21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

Rev 2:20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,


Yes, we can receive forgiveness for sin, but we cannot continue in that sin. Using tobacco is a sin. If we quit, repent and ask for forgiveness then God will forgive us. If we begin to use tobacco again, then we are in sin again. We received forgiveness for it once, but now we need forgiveness again, but we must stop... we must repent and confess that sin, asking for forgiveness in order to receive forgiveness. (1 John 1:9)

We can receive forgiveness for adultery, but we must repent of the adultery and turn away from it. Jesus is very clear on the matter...

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

In this situation, a person is in the state of adultery. It's not just adultery once and then it goes away... it is adultery as long as the marriage continues. There is no repentance on the sinners part if they continue in that sin. It will not do any good to ask God to forgive you for it if you plan to continue in it.

The truth is that if we continue in that sin... there remains no more sacrifice for our sins...

Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.


Unfortunately I am not aware of anyone who has been in this situation and worked through it. I will see if it is possible to find you some sort of counsel. If you will, send me a PM with your full name and address and I will try to do all that I can to help you find someone for you to talk with.

There is no doubt this is a tough situation to be in, however, life is full of tough situations that we as Christians must work through. Making the right choices are important and can determine where our soul will spend eternity. It is much better to suffer now than to suffer later. This life is nothing more than a vapor, here today and gone tomorrow. The life after this is eternal.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

I knew of a situation in our congregation where a couple divorced because the husband didn't divorce the first time for Scriptural reasons.

Unfortunately, the wife recently passed away and can't relate her story to you. I think the husband moved away. He came back only recently and asked for the prayers of the church and asked for God's and the congregation's forgiveness.

Blessings,
Pam

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"Have I not commanded you? Be strong and of good courage; do not be afraid, nor dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go." Joshua 1:9 NKJV

It boils down to this, sin is sin. If unscriptural divorce is a sin, if lying is a sin, if stealing is a sin, or whatever else. It is all sin. If a drunkard, a thief, or a liar comes to Christ in repentance we all believe that is A-OK and rejoice. The divorced person is saddled with his sin for life in the eyes of many Christians who will tell you out of one side of their mouth not to judge then turn around and judge you out of the other side. They'll tell you you can get forgiveness, but apparently not for this one. I only read of one sin that will not be forgiven, and divorce is not it. Do you wonder how many church ladies gossipped about your divorce? Was that the Christian thing to do. I personally believe a repentant murderer has a better chance of being accepted in many churches than a repentant divorced person. My former wife left me and did not remarry but had a child with another man after she left. I am still judged today off that divorce even though I had nothing to do with it. She chose to leave and she chose to have a child with another man. Even though many may see my divorce as scriptural I still am excluded from many church positions and my remarriage I am sure is still frowned upon by the "hoiler than thous" many of whom I know for a fact have sin in their own backyards but view my divorce as worse. If this is what Christ wanted his followers to be like I am reading the wrong book.

Neil, Sonnie has told you the truth. There's only one thing I'll add. The title that's been adopted for this thread is "Divorce situation." That's what many people believe this is, because people are SITUATION oriented. God's word is not. It is objective truth. We get ourselves into some very complicated situations, but God's word is objective and must be obeyed. The situation may seem complex and difficult. God's word is not. Forgiveness is conditional upon repentance. Repentance means turning away from sin and not continuing in it. "Sin no more," Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery.

The right way is sometimes not easy, but it is always simple. I hope you will listen to God's word taught by Bro. Sonnie.

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"that in all things he might have the preeminence." Colossians 1:18

Many great comments. Always in consideration is how living in an unscriptural marriage affects all of the members of the congregation. If a little "yeast" is allowed inside, then it hurts everybody, 1 Cor. 5:6, Gal. 5:9.
There is no question that Matt. 19:9 teaches the truth, and that the faithful are bound by it.
No doubt a right decision is bound to be painful, so the choice is to be either right with the Lord, or face the eternal consequences - for you and your spouse - and possibly for a permissive congregation and its eldership.

Elijah101, I got a little confused in the middle of your post. I'm not clear on what you are saying about the innocent party in an adulterous marriage. Could you please clarify these two questions:

1) Is the innocent party in an adulterous marriage free get divorced?
2) Is the innocent party in an adulterous marriage free to remarry following a divorce?

The 9th and 10th chapters of Ezra give a similar situation. There were those who had returned from captivity and married the idolatrous people there. They had forsaken God's commandments (9:10, ESV) "We have broken faith with our God and married foreign women..." (10:2; see also Deuteronomy 7:3). They realized what they had to do.

Jesus has given His law on marriage, divorce, and remarriage. All men today are bound by it.

It is a sad situation, but "Arise, for it is your task, and we are with you; be strong and do it" (Ezra 10:4). There are those Christians who may not follow this verse, but do not let what others might do to you keep you from doing what you know the Bible says you must do.

Well said. I know of no other situation which has more challenge. The effects of Matt. 19:9 are far reaching with regard to the number of people affected. But the teaching is clear.

Elijah 101,

Were there those within (and accepted by) the church in the 1st century that had been married more than once? See 1 Tim 3:2 and Titus 1:6. Why would Paul feel the need to disqualify those within the church who had married more than once from being an elder if there were none?

You are trying to use other scriptures to explain away what Jesus said. Matthew 19:9 is very plain:

"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

You seem to completely ignore the exception, and go to great lengths to explain it away. I've read all of the verses you have supplied and I still can't see how you reach this conclusion regarding remarriage for an innocent partner without ignoring a statement of Jesus. You can't use what Jesus said in one passage to eliminate what he said in another. We must harmonize all scriptures on a given subject and in this situation we must include the exception that Jesus taught in Matthew 19:9. The indication is clear that one can divorce and remarry another without committing adultery provided that one's first marriage partner has committed fornication.

I agree that biblical teaching is very narrow and at times seems harsh. Some also try to bind things that simply are not contained within the scriptures. Denying the teachings of Jesus is also taking away from the scriptures.

I agree with Kevin's post. Matt. 19:9 seems and has always seemed quite clear to me. I have read arguments against Christ's exception that spanned thousands of words. However those arguments fell flat against the simple truth of those 33 English words (32 in the ASV).

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1 Peter 5:6-7: Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. -ESV

The exception in Matt. 19:9 is clear. It is not required that the Bible address every hypothetical which may be possible from the use of "except..."
Why reach conclusions on what the "Bible doesn't say"?

Perhaps you should read it again. The version I read says "except" for fornication but you say "even for" fornication. The word "except" would exclude it from what is being said, and your words "even for" would include it with what is being said. The words of Jesus by which we will be judged (John 12:48-50) say "except" for fornication.

How would your interpretation of what Christ said be any different if the words "except it be for fornication" were not in the text?

Neil, you committed a sin with the first divorce and that will never be undone but having gone before God and asking forgiveness, He has forgiven you. Why in the world would you repeat that sin in order to receive the forgiveness of men, only to be found in sin against God once more? I am a Baptist and not Church of Christ but I would keep looking for the proper pastor if I were you. When God has forgiven you, no man can condemn you or your wife. You are a sinner, forgiven, just like the rest of us and you need a pastor that teaches out of the Bible and not from ideologies dreamed up by a group of men.Having said that you should know that there are "Christians" out there that would serve me up for breakfast because they do no seek the entire Word of God on this matter but instead use one or two verses, drawn out of context to come up with this false teaching. Always remember the first rule of Hermeneutics, "No scripture can be interpreted without the light of every other verse in the Bible being used to enlighten it.

"Except" that the words of the Lord are in the text!

Unless or until "except" does not mean what it says and say what it means, Matt. 19:9 remains quite clear.

Vines dictionary, page 215:

In Matt. 19:9, and Matt. 5:32 the original Greek "parektos" deals with Vines Dictionary 2.(b), where it is used as a preposition "signifying except"; in Matt. 5:32 "saving". Vine goes on to write: "In Matt. 19:9, the KJV and RV, translating the mss. which have the negative 'me', followed by 'epi', render it "except for". The authorities mentioned in the RV marg. have 'parektos', followed by 'logou', i.e. "saving for the cause of".

"Looking for the proper pastor" is what a lot of the world does. They look around until they find someone who teaches what they want to hear. This is how those who practice homosexuality and those who cohabitate oustide of marriage among other things find a church home. Just because someone teaches that your sin isn't a sin doesn't make it so. God is forgiving. However, as Bro Sonnie pointed out earlier in this thread, repentence is necessary.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
2Ti 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'