I do not see David accusing anyone of anything... he simply quoted Scripture. He did not write it, John did, inspired by God. If it applies to you, then it has pricked your heart.

Jesus says... (not I, but Jesus)...

Luk 8:18 Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.

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In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Stephen: Ro 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

I think that if God gave them this and not let other generatios participated in this manner, then he changed the plan of salvation and became a respector of persons.

To many times I find contradictions and possibly you will not accept any other view for study. I think it time to end this study. Let us all hold on to the faith in our Lord Jesus
and earnestly pray for enlightment. God Bless

How is this verse related to God's plan of salvation found in the gospel? God is not inclusive, but exclusive in this regard.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you[a] all.

Please do not leave. If you are right, show us. If we are wrong, show us how. Would you turn away someone willing to study? Please reconsider. We were happy you were here but when we study the bible, it must come forth as the primary authority and also we must be willing to look at our own thoughts and ideas critically.

I have accused you of nothing. I provided clear concise scripture that illustrates what complete love is.

There may be differing viewpoints, but there is only one that is correct. We need to go with the one that is supported by all of what scripture says.

I am not your enemy because I tell you the truth. If I am wrong on something I beg you to show me in scripture. I need to know. We should all seek God's will and obey it. There is nothing more important than that.

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

If you disallow scriptures that show you that the Holy Ghost was received before baptism by saying they do not pertain to us now, I can show you nothing. I feel that anything I show you that doesn't agree with your belief will be shoved aside because it does not pertain to us now.

Lord bless your studies if you will study.

Stephen and David: I know that you have denied the fact that you have accosted me,
but the scripture you quoted presented me almost on the order of being a heretic. I probably will not post on any of the threads but if allowed to I will be back to read some of them.

I plead with you to not be so quick to be offended. I have never met Steven or David in person, but I feel like I know them fairly well, by way of reading their writings, and corresponding with them via the internet. I do not believe either meant any offense. In fact I re-read the postings and don't see anything offensive. Unless The Word offends you.

I join in with others on this thread in our desire that you stick around. We do not wish that you leave. We of course cannot force you. You are more than welcome to just read if that is what you desire.

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John 6:67-68: "Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, 'Would ye also go away?' Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.'"

Is it wrong to differ from you? Why are you anxious about what we say? We just posted scriptures about how the Holy Spirit baptism is not the baptism of Christ that we have today, which is a reasonable statement from the scriptures, which I can show and David, he set the tone to say that if we, including me, truly love the Lord, we will hold His Word as the final authority.

Without understanding the authority of the Word, neither of us can understand the will of God.

I really hope you can relax some and just study the Word we share because I am not bothered by anything you have said and will be more than glad to read though all you have to say and teach. I must warn you though, I will compare it to the scriptures and may or may not agree. That may seem harsh to you but in the bible, that is called wisdom, like the Bereans.

I pray you understand what I am trying to tell you.

On the study the baptism of the Holy Spirit that leads to miracles and abilities, we can study this now if you want so you do not think I am brushing the topic aside. I can show you why these two instances were not relevant to the baptism of Christ we have now.

I will affirm brother Lee’s endorsement of Steven and David. You are reading them wrong, ‘saved.’ Give it some time and you will see…that’s all I ask. I think your appraisal of them was a bit premature. So ask away…get to know them better…I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you become more acquainted. They may turn out to be the best friends you ever had, if given the chance.

In Him,

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BVidlar

“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him” (Psalm 8:4)?

SavedbyGrace,

Many have been the times I have been faced with convicting scripture. When this happens, I accept it and conform myself to it. Nobody comes to a complete understanding of God's will for us all at once. It takes a lifetime of diligent study and God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6. Hebrews chapter 11 is an excellent chapter in the book to read. I recommend you read it all and then well into chapter 12.

I must make one observation and lest you misunderstand my intent here, this is meant as a positive thing and with all sincerity. You were upset from what you read in my post. What was in my post was mostly scripture. You were touched emotionally by what you read. To me that means you recognize the authority of what scripture says. That is a commendable thing and a basis for which we can have a fruitful dialogue.

Please observe this one:

Ephesians 4:4-5
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

How many faiths does Paul say there is? And how many do you see when you look at all the different denominations out there? Each one has their own point of view. Do you think they can all be right?

Galatians 1:6-8
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

A thorough study of Galatians reveals that Paul wrote that letter in response to those who were trying to persuade the churches in Galatia to bind certain tenants of the old levitical law such as circumcision upon the Christians. The application to our topic here is that there is only one gospel and the Galatians binding circumcision constituted a change in that gospel for which they were pronounced accursed. Their point of view left them outside of fellowship with Christ and the Father. So not every point of view is acceptable to God.

Romans 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness , have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

The people in this context had a point of view too. Their point of view left them ignorant of God's righteousness.

What I am trying to do here is to demonstrate that a particular point of view is not necessarily an acceptable one to God. In order to be acceptable to God, our point of view must be in accord with His righteousness. The only place we are going to find that is through His word. And I believe you recognize the authority of God's word or you would not have reacted like you did. I have genuine hope that you do and I feel compelled to reach out to you in an effort to engage you in an honest Bible study where we will let the word of God do the talking.

Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Let us show you the way to salvation which encompasses all of what Jesus said and taught. You have nothing to lose and so much to gain. You can never ever go wrong by following what the Bible says. By so doing, we are all assured of having God on our side and with God on our side, no one can stand against us. Romans 8:31

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"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him." 1 John 3:18-19

The church of Christ at Granby

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus…For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT OF GOD is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 3:23-24, 6:23). Salvation ‘offered’ through Christ is absolutely free and there is NOTHING we can do to earn it…it is a gift! But that does not mean that there is nothing for us to do to receive the FREE GIFT. (John 6:29) says: “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the WORK of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” So our faith is a WORK; and as you pointed out we will be judged ‘according to our works’ (Rev. 20:12).

Believing in Christ alone does not save us. Neither does baptism in and of itself save us. But baptism is necessary to RECEIVE His free gift of salvation.

I hope this helps in your understanding.

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BVidlar

“What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him” (Psalm 8:4)?

Just saw this post brother Rob. It is a very good response to the argument many in the Baptist Church make.

Man... you are getting so smart. I can see that my work with you is paying off. Now... if you will just come over to the personal indwelling side..... come....... cooooommmmeeeeee.... that's right..... keep coming......

Brotherly,
Don

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Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org

I think it is because they are emphasizing baptism even less than they did before. Before it was to become part of the church but had nothing to do with being forgiven of ones sins. Too bad they believe this because it is they way God has given us in His gospel as to how we come into the contact with the blood of Christ, which cleanses us. Satan must laugh when he thinks he has tricked people into accepting Christ without obeying the gospel or ever even coming into contact with His blood, the only way to get forgiveness.

Well, Robert...not necessarily, I am sad to say. While membership has been down...alot of them have been seeking truth but turing toward more "mainstream" religion like Olsteen and Copeland and are being led even further away.

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Romans 16:16 1 Thess. 5:17 1 Thess. 5:22 1 Tim. 6:12 2 Tim 2:15