In Mark 16:15 & 16, our Lord said, "…Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." We have briefly looked at the importance of faith, repentance, and confession. Now, let us notice the importance of baptism in God's plan of salvation.

The word baptize comes from the greek word "baptidzo" or "bapto." This word literally means to "whelm" or "immerse in something that envelopes on all sides." So, into what are we immersed?

Scriptural baptism is immersion in water. One example of this is the baptism of our Lord Jesus. In Matthew chapter 3 we read about John the Baptist baptizing in the Jordan River. In verse 16 we read, "And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up strait way out of the water."

We can also refer back to the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:26-40. The scripture tells us that Philip preached to him Jesus and the eunuch said, in verse 35, "See, here is water: what doth hinder me to be baptized?" Then we read in verse 38, "…and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."

Spiritually speaking, baptism is a burial (Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12). We know that Christ shed his blood in death on the cross (John 19:34). It is at the point of baptism that a person comes into contact with the blood of Christ which washes away one's sins.

In Romans 6:3 & 4 the Bible says, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." When a person is baptized, their old self dies and is buried. When they come up out of the water, they are a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The Bible teaches us we are not saved until we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That is why Peter said, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins" (Acts 2:38 - ASV), and in 1 Peter 3:21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us…" (KJV). That is why Saul, who was a penitent believer and had been praying for days, was told to "arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

The blood of Christ (Revelation 1:5), by the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8), washes away our sins when we by faith (Hebrews 11:6), repent of our sins (Luke 13:3), confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God (Romans 10:9 & 10), and are baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:26 & 27); because Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mark 16:16).

__________________
Brother Jason Holladay

Lets get back to basics:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

These statemnets alone are truth and there is NO mention of baptism. Something I was taught when I was newly saved - base your doctrine on the clear scriptures!! These verses don't get any more clear! There is mention of baptism by the Holy Spirit and baptism by water so you could confuse the baptism verses all day long. Between these two verses we learn we are saved by God's gift of grace through our faith (trust) in His Son.

Actually Jason's lesson is very basic Bible truth.

"believes in Him" is more than just a mental assent, rather it includes "believing in Jesus" for the way of salvation, which includes baptism for the remission of sins. Jesus is very clear about this... we won't argue with Him.

Baptism is not a work of merit or a work of yourself, it is a work of faith, of God... and we can certainly not boast about it anymore than we can boast about the work of believing.

Just because there is no baptism mentioned does not make it less important. There is also no repentance mentioned, but Jesus clearly says unless we repent we will surely perish. (Luke 13:3,5) So your conclusion there is not relevant.

The doctrine taught here is based on nothing but Scriptures... very clear and very precise. Brother Jason does not alter the Scripture, it says what it says.

There is also no confusion on Holy Spirit baptism if you study it closely... see this on Holy Spirit Baptism... it will explain it very clearly.

Remember that trusting in Jesus includes trusting in Him for the way of Salvation, which includes hearing, believing, repentance, confessing Him, being baptized into Him and remaining faithful until death.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

The verses I have written above show that it is through faith by grace and nothing more. If you say we have to be baptised to be saved then those verses by themselves are lies. Since we know our Lord can not and does not lie then these verses are completely true by themselves.

I was saved in May 2003 and became a new creation. I did not get baptised until almost a year later. I have been 100% redeemed by the blood of Christ since May 2003. My salvation was complete when I accepted that free gift of eternal life in May 2003, not a year later when I was baptised. This is crystal clear in Scripture and in my life.

With respect Rebecca, you are taking the passages out of context and failing to consider all Scripture. We cannot live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from God.

With your reasoning those passages make Jesus a liar when He says "He who believes and is baptized will be saved."

Please explain the following verses:

Mark 16:16
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
Galatians 3:27
Colossians 2:12
Romans 6:3,4 (Which explains we become that "new creation" you mentioned when we are raised up out of the waters of baptism.)

and exspecially, "baptism now saves us" from 1 Peter 3:21

I think you are missing the point and totally ignoring the Scriptures. "Faith" includes trusting in Jesus and all of what He said, which would include what He said in Mark 16:16. So by faith we are all saved. God's grace is extended through offering us the plan of salvation that He has so graciously laid out for us, which includes hearing, believing, repentance, confessing Him as Lord, water baptism and remaining faithful until death. Anything less and according to the Bible, you are not saved. It's what the Bible says, plain and clear. You can twist it up, wrestle with it, dance with it... whatever, but in the end, it says what it says and it is extremely clear that God tells us baptism saves us and according to Jesus we must be baptized to be saved.

How sad it is when people blatantly ignore the instructions of God's Word.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

By saying you need to physically be baptised to be saved then you are ignoring scripture when the Lord specifically says "it is not by works" A baptism is a work! Having faith in something or someone is not a work, but baptism is. God can not contradict Himself so He would not have said it is not of works and then say you have to do a work (baptism) - this make no sense! You see, God made it SIMPLE so that all could come to Him.

Yes I do believe God commands us to be baptised (what is said in all your scriptures you pointed out) but only after one accepts Christ and only as a symbol of His death and reserrection - a way for us to identify with Him. I was saved the moment I accepted God's gift and the entire year before I got baptised..absolutely NO question there!! Baptism did not make me a new creation; in May 2003 when I accepted God's gift I became a new creation (pretty remarkably so I might add - HUGE changes) that only could have been made through becoming that new creation and being born again. This had NOTHING to do with my baptism.

It's very obvious you did not even read those passages Rebecca, otherwise you would not be contradicting them in the way you are. This is so sad.

This is where you simply need to study more Rebecca because you are grossly twisting the Scriptures and taking them out of context.

First of the passage says:

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Notice that it is not of works that we can boast about. Baptism is not a work we can boast about.

And contrary to your statement that believing (faith) is not a work, Jesus says it is. It is a work just like baptism is... but not of our own merit that we can boast about. They both are works of God.

Salvation is clearly the gift of God's grace, as it is not from us. Paul is not claiming that "faith" is not of ourselves, clearly we must believe and have personal faith... he is explaining that the "gift of God" is not of ourselves. The "gift" is because of God's grace and our "obedience to the faith". There is something we must obey to be saved. Yet, there are many people who claim that requiring obedience for salvation is the same as working our way into heaven on our own merit. When Paul refers to works in this passage, notice the type of works he classifies. He clearly points out that we cannot gain God’s grace by works that we can boast about, “lest any man should boast.” He does not exclude works altogether, but rather works of our own merit and works of the Jewish Law is what he is excluding. It is impossible for Paul to be excluding every type of work, because salvation in itself is a “work of God”.

Can we somehow claim that hearing, believing, repenting, confessing, and baptism are works of ourselves? No, not according to the Bible…

John 6:27-29 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

Jesus clearly said, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom He has sent." We must "believe in Him" which is "the work of God". While it is a work of God, WE must do it. The commandments we are required to obey in order to be saved are works of faith, or the works of God.

Now think about Noah... he and his family had to build this massive boat… no doubt a lot of manual labor, but did they work their way into heaven? No, they did a work out of faith, or a work of God…

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Consider Romans 10:17... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Then 2 Corinthians 5:7... For we walk by faith, not by sight:

We learn how Noah heard God (“being warned of God”)…

and he obeyed (“moved with fear” and “prepared an ark”) upon “hearing” those words ("the word of God")…

and ("by faith, not by sight") because he could not see these things (“things not seen as yet”) of which God was warning him.

He had faith that what God was telling him was true… he “believed” God and he “obeyed” God.

God TOLD Noah and his family WHAT THEY HAD TO DO TO BE SAVED, just like God tells us in the Scriptures that there is something we must do to be saved. Had Noah not built the ark, would he and his family have been saved? Obviously not! If we do not OBEY what God has commanded us to do, will we be saved? The answer is obvious!

"Believing" includes trusting in Jesus to guide us in the way of salvation. Jesus tells us that “He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.” (Mark 16:16a) However, many people believe baptism is a work of ourselves and to require this of salvation is to somehow earn our way into heaven. But what do the scriptures say…

Titus 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of generation and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

The apostle Paul tells us that God saved us, "not on the basis of deeds", which are works of our own righteousness, but He saved us "according to His mercy". And how did He save us? "...by the washing of generation and renewing by the Holy Spirit".

Now let's compare what Paul wrote with what Jesus said during His ministry…

John 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

The word "washing" is from the Greek word "baptizo", which is also translated as "baptism". The word "generation" or "regeneration" is from the Greek word "paliggenesia", which is translated as "new birth" or "born again". The "washing of generation" is "baptism"… there is little argument among scholars about this translation. Notice how Jesus explains being "born again" as the same as being "born of water and the Spirit"… while the inspired apostle Paul affirms what Jesus taught when he explains being “born again” as the "washing of generation and renewing by the Holy Spirit".

We compared what Paul wrote vs. what Jesus wrote... let's now compare how Paul again affirms what he previously wrote. When Paul wrote to Titus he explained... Titus 3:5(a) “He saved us, not out of works of righteousness that we did,” Then he wrote to the Philippians …

Philippians 3:9 And be found in Him, not having my righteousness which is of the Law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God based upon the faith.

Paul explains how we are found "in Him" (in Christ). To Titus he wrote "not out of works of righteousness that we did". To the Philippians he wrote "not having my righteous which is of the Law". Paul affirms twice how the works we do for salvation are not of ourselves. Then Paul tells us how the works we do are... "through the faith of Christ"... and "the righteousness which is from God based upon the faith."

Clearly "believing" and “baptism” are not works of ourselves whereas we earn our way into heaven. Both are "works of God" and according to His mercy. These works of God that we are commanded to obey are how we are "justified by His grace". (Romans 3:24 and Titus 3:7).

The "works of God" are “faith, repentance, confession, and baptism (immersion) and they are works of God's righteousness, works of faith. God foreordained these specific works that are to be done by everyone that will come to Him through Jesus Christ. Christ is the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. (Hebrews 5:9)

If we could somehow misinterpret Ephesians 2:7-10 to mean that we do not have to obey these works that Jesus taught and commanded, and the apostles taught and preached... then there are some serious contradictions in the Bible. Even Paul would be contradicting his own words because he preached and taught obeying the gospel, which is obedience to the faith, and includes hearing, believing, repentance, confessing, and baptism... as well as faithfulness and perseverance. We clearly know the Bible does not contradict itself.

The works unto salvation are not a matter of boasting and merit, but are simply the obvious submissive responses of a humble believer desiring to be recreated by God in Christ. We must obey the "works of God" to be saved.

This is not found anywhere in the Bible. It is a man-made doctrine that has been falsely taught for many years. Long enough to convince a few who fail to study their Bible and who simply believe in what other men tell them, that it's true. However, it is false teaching and those who teach it as well as those who adhere to it will not be saved.

Jesus did not say, "He who believes will be saved and then should be baptized." He said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Ask your grammar teacher about the difference between those two sentences if you have doubts.

Peter was very clear in Acts 2:38 that the people were to repent and be baptized for the remission (forgiveness) of sins. He did not say to repent and your sins will be forgiven and then you should be baptized.

You will have to twist the Scriptures to get them to mean what you suggest Rebecca, again that will not work.

Accepting God's gift includes hearing the word, believing, repentance, confessing Christ and being baptized into Christ.

There is absolutely NO question that baptism is a must to be saved. The Bible just couldn't be any clearer.

Indeed, your baptism may not have made you a new creation if you were baptized for the wrong reasons, which would include believing that you were saved prior to baptism. However, baptism clearly makes us a new creation if we are baptized for the right reasons... according to the inspired Paul in Romans chapter 6.

Rebecca, people can make drastic changes in there life and never even have heard of God. Your changes are a result of repentance. It's obvious you have had a repentant heart for many years, although you have failed to study God's Word appropriately. This is another change you need to make right now. You also need to be re-baptized to have your sins washed away (Acts 22:16) and for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38).

You need to obey the gospel:

2Th 1:5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering--
2Th 1:6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
2Th 1:7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.


I am really saddened that you are so confused about the truth of the Bible. I will be praying for your soul Rebecca. I hope you will study God's Word and make the right decision. Quit listening to men and false teaching and look at what the Scriptures say.

God bless you!

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

After reading this thread I feel I must respond to stop you from discouraging our fellow Christians.

You mistake water baptism for spiritual baptism. Why would John constantly leave baptism out of the picture?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son

-No mention of baptism in either.

Acts 16:29-33
29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Key verse is verse 31. Believe and you will be saved. Not believe and be baptized and you will be saved. In biblical times, it was common to immediately get baptized once after being saved but was not necessary for salvation.

You mention Mark 16:16: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

It is a two part statement. If you believe and are baptized then you are obviously saved. If you do not believe, then you are condemned. It is a logical fallacy for you to infer that if you believe and are not baptized then you will not be saved. Logic does not dictate that.

Just answer me this one question: Is it water or Christ that saves us?

Ephesians 1:7
"In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace."

We'll ignore your first comment and get down to your misunderstanding of the Scriptures. I deleted it because it breaks our Forum Rules, which you should read prior to posting again. Thank you.

Secondly... we are encouraging the lost to study and learn the truth... to quit listening to false teachers. If they listen to you... they will no doubt be lost.

You are ignoring a lot of Scripture that has been presented. If you would like to respond, please do so appropriately and respond to each passage quoted above. You are leaving out most of it and picking and choosing what you would like to respond to in an attempt to support your own man-made doctrine. This is a deceiving tactic used by many false teachers and those who do not fully understand the Scriptures. We do not allow such here in this forum.

You assume since John 3:16 and John 3:18 do not mention baptism, it therefore is not required. So, does that mean Jesus lied when he told Nicodemus that in order to enter the kingdom of heaven one must be born of water and the spirit? (John 3:3-5)

Since John 3:16 and John 3:18 do not mention repentance, does that mean it is not necessary? Luke 13:3, 5 and Acts 17:30.

Since John 3:16 and John 3:18 do not mention confessing Jesus, does that mean it is not necessary? Mathew 10:32, 33

Since John 3:16 and John 3:18 do not mention remaining faithful unto death, does that mean we do not have to remain faithful? Revelation 2:10

Your argument there is totally insufficient to support your claims.

Furthermore you offer no Scriptural proof to support your comment that I have mistaken water baptism for spiritual baptism, of which John says both are required. Please provide Scriptural proof to support your claims. I have clearly provided Scriptural proof that water baptism is required.

You might consider reading "all" of what John wrote, not just two verses...



You conveniently left out verse 34 I see. Another nice try at deception, but it won't work.

Act 16:34 Then he brought them up into his house and set food before them. And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.

Notice that they were considered to have believed in God after they were baptized, not before.



That's about one of the oldest arguments I have heard and any English teacher will give you a lesson that your grammar is lacking in your understanding of that passage. None the less, we don't need an English teacher to clearly see the truth.

First of all, believing is a prerequisite to baptism... one must first believe before he can be baptized and the baptism be of any effect. Therefore, if a person does not believe, he is condemned whether he is baptized or not. There is no need for Jesus to write it or say it. Besides... He had already stated who would be saved... those who believe and are baptized. Either you agree with Jesus or you don't.

No one is arguing "what" saves us. I am very aware that the blood of Christ is what saves us. The question is "when" are we saved?

See... you will probably say we are saved when we pray to God and accept Jesus into our heart, which you won't be able to provide any Scripture to support your man-made doctrine.

I will say what the Scripture teaches us... we are saved when we are baptized in water. This is when we come in contact with the blood of Christ.

The Scripture that will support this is:

Matthew 28:18-20
Mark 16:15-16
John 3:3-5
Acts 2:38
Acts 8:36-38
Romans 6:3-5

Please explain your understanding of each passage above and then answer this question:

What does, "...baptism does also now save us" mean in 1 Peter 3:18-22?

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

I stated that it is common to immediately get baptized after being saved in biblical times. I did not leave out verse 34 for deception purposes. You didn't understand the point of that passage. The question was "what must I do to be saved?" The answer: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Here, baptism is an example of public obedience to God as a result from them being saved. The fact that they mention they were saved after saying they were baptized does not promote your argument further because I also believe that if you believe and you are baptized then you are saved.

Quoted from this link: http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Mark-16-16.html (you can read the full argument here if you want)

It is problematic for me to bring up scripture that says baptism is not necessary because it is out of obedience to God that we be baptized. It is a natural progression and public confirmation of our faith. All the scripture I can give you states that we are saved by faith without mention of baptism.

Explain these to me please:

Luke 7:50
Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Show me scripture where it says those that are not baptized are condemned and my argument is moot.

By all means, tell me if I have taken scripture out of context. My purpose here is not to intentionally deceive, but to show the Bible's truth.

I understand how you come to your conclusions. Please try to understand how I come to mine before rejecting them.

Obviously you do not understand what all believing includes. And again, you cannot take one passage out of context and try to support your man-made doctrine.

Believing in Him, believing in the Lord Jesus is not simply a mental assent. You would do good to study the meaning of the Greek word pisteuō.

Let's notice the definition:

~to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
~to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith

To believe in Jesus is to believe everything He did, everything He said and it includes obeying all He commanded, which includes baptism. This is why when the jailer and his family were told they must believe he knew that it included baptism.

You can wrestle with it all day and all night... there is absolutely nothing there that would indicate obedience after being saved.

Furthermore, Peter and the apostles were asked that very same question on the day of Pentecost... "What must we do?" Look at how Peter responded... "Repent and be baptized..." and why was the baptism necessary... "for the remission of sins".

Are you going to somehow claim that there are contradictions in the Bible?

There are hundreds of links that you can go running to in order to support all kinds of false doctrines. That one is no different. You need to quit looking at what men are writing and start trusting in the word of God. Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved..." ... He did not say, "He who believes is saved and should be baptized..."

Again, you can wrestle with it all you want... Jesus said what He said and I am going to believe in Him and do as He said. If you want to deny him, that is your choice.

Give me just one passage that explains your theory here. You babble, but you offer no Scripture. This is typical for those who work for Satan. They deceive... they try to use flattery with words, they appear to be sheep, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

It is problematic for you because there is no Scripture that proves your belief. Period!

OK... I'm going to do exactly what you would not do.

I asked you to explain Scripture... you refused to do so. Obviously because you cannot. You run from it, which is what Satan does quite regularly... he runs from God's Word. Typical.

Her faith saved her... so what. This proves nothing for us who are under a different covenant that this woman. There were many people who lived under the old Law that were saved by faith. Baptism was not a requirement under the old Law... it is under the new Law. Baptism was commanded under the New Covenant... after the death, burial and resurrection.

Look at the Greek... "through the faith". "The faith" is the system of faith by which we are saved. It is obedience to the gospel. We are buried with Him through baptism... lowered in the water as He was lowered... raised up from the water just as He was and we are raised to a newness of life. Romans 6:3-5.

You are doing a pitiful job of yanking passages out of context. You just don't get it... you need much much more study. Look at the passage in context...

Ephesians 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through the faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is clearly the gift of God's grace, as it is not from us. Paul is not claiming that "faith" is not of ourselves, clearly we must believe and have personal faith... he is explaining that the "gift of God" is not of ourselves. The "gift" is because of God's grace and our "obedience to the faith". There is something we must obey to be saved. Yet, there are many people who claim that requiring obedience for salvation is the same as working our way into heaven on our own merit. When Paul refers to works in this passage, notice the type of works he classifies. He clearly points out that we cannot gain God’s grace by works that we can boast about, “lest any man should boast.” He does not exclude works altogether, but rather works of our own merit and works of the Jewish Law is what he is excluding. It is impossible for Paul to be excluding every type of work, because salvation in itself is a “work of God”.

Even believing is a work... look at John 6:29.

Again... you must understand what believing involves... it is not merely a mental assent.

Think about this. If believing is all that is required... would you agree that someone calling Jesus "Lord, Lord" would be a believer? If you call Jesus Lord, then surely you believe. Let's look at what Jesus said to some who simply believed...

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And what did James say about demons who believed...

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

The devils believe... are they going to heaven?

Obviously taken out of context you do not understand its meaning and are trying to misapply it. Many have tried to make this passage an excuse for denying the necessity of the believer's baptism into Christ. If such a view is tenable, how can Paul's baptism of Stephanas, Gaius, and Crispus be explained? Of course, what Paul referred to here was the administration of the rite of baptism, there being nothing here to the effect that Paul preached salvation without baptism. He like all the apostles had been commanded to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them" (Matt. 28:19).

You are grasping at straws. Why don't you simply accept the truth?

Your argument if moot!

Verse #1 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

If you are not baptized, you will not enter into the kingdom of God... to not enter the kingdom of God is to be condemned.

Verse #2 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If you are not baptized your sins will not be remitted and you are condemned.

Verse #3 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

If you are not baptized then your sins will not be washed away... therefore you are condemned.

Verses #4, 5 and 6 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

If you are not baptized into Christ then you have not been baptized into His death. If you are not buried with Him by baptism into death, then you are condemned because all spiritual blessings are in Christ…

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

Notice where "all spiritual blessings" are... they are "in Christ". And how do we get "in Christ"? The only way is according to the Bible is to "baptized into Christ".

Verses 7 and 8 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Now consider what the above says... Paul explains that "by faith in Christ Jesus" ... "ye are all the children of God". Notice now what that faith includes... "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Saving faith includes being baptized into Christ.

Verses 9, 10 and 11 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

2 Thessalonian 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thessalonian 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thessalonian 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

If you do not "obey the gospel" you will be punished with everlasting destruction, which is condemnation.

What does it mean to "obey the gospel"... to "obey" the "death, burial and resurrection"... read Romans chapter 6. It clearly includes being baptized ... being buried with Him.

Verse 12 that proves if you are not baptized you are condemned:

1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

What was it "corresponding" to? Water! If you are not baptized you will not be saved... Peter says it right here in verse 21. Baptism saves... if you are not baptized you are not saved and thereby condemned.


I could go on and on and on. How many do you need to finally see the truth?


The problem here is you don't want to accept the truth of what the word of God says. You have been too heavily influenced by mere men. Men who have been taught the wrong way for years, decades... even centuries. As long as you trust in what man says and continue to ignore the truth of the Bible... you will continue to wrestle with the truth.

Jesus said to go and make disciples (Christians)... how? By baptizing them. Matt 28:19, 20

Jesus said he who believes and is baptized will be saved... Mark 16:15

Jesus said we must be born of water to enter the kingdom of God... John 3:5

Peter said to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins... Acts 2:38

Paul's sins were washed away when he was baptized... Acts 22:16

Paul said those who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ... Galatians 3:27

Peter said baptism now saves us and corresponded it to water... 1 Peter 3:21


How much more proof do you need?

Quit denying Christ... man... come on! It is obvious that you believe... it is obvious that you have repented... it is obvious that are trying to confess Christ as the Son of God and Lord... but it is obvious you have been baptized for the wrong reason or reasons. Why tarriest thou... arise and be baptized, washing away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord! Go and be baptized right now for the right reasons and start teaching the truth!

Do what Jesus commands of you. Obey God and allow Jesus to be your source of eternal salvation. Hebrews 5:9

You conclusions are not only rejected by me... they are rejected by Jesus... they are rejected by God.

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

Hi Rebeccalynn,

I can see that some time has passed since Brother Sonnie shared the scriptures with you regarding the necessity of baptism. I was just wondering if you had any more questions of if you have had time to study the verses he gave you.

One of the things we have to be careful of is taking one verse and saying this is the ONLY verse I need. The Bible works together as a whole and needs to be taken as a whole.

How are you doing? Can we help with any more questions?

Let us know...

Kindly,
Don

__________________
preacher@hydeparkcoc.org

I have one question here concerning this; That is has anyone ever considered what Christ meant when he said that you need to be born of "water" and the Spirit.

In other words is Christ referring to physical water such as what we drink and bathe or is he referring to that of Spiritual water?

Jn 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

I was intrigued to see that no one quoted Eph. 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

If some one did cite this verse I apologize for missing it. I will admit that I have not checked out B.Sonnie article about Holy Spirit baptism; because I'm sure it relates to the text that is above.

Simply take John 3:5 and compare it to Acts 2:38. In this you see water and the spirit. At the moment of Baptism is when water and the Spirit come together and we are born again Romans 6:3-11. In John 3:5 Jesus is talking about the spiritual birth (born again) that occurs when one is baptized. It is that simple.

Kindly,
Don

__________________
preacher@hydeparkcoc.org

You might also consider Titus where these two elements are mentioned again...

Tit 3:4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

If I understood you correct you believe that water baptism will save us.

Do you not think that if one is baptized with water he is doing a act or a work of righteousness, think about it this way; in the end who is making the final decision.

One think that I would like to point out is the word "regeneration" unfortunately it is only found one other time in the Bible and that is in Mt. 19:28. If the word generate is the main word of regeneration, which I believe it is and if the word means to bring into existence and if the word regeneration means to make new again. How would that fit into water baptism.

Don; I'm not quite sure how to respond to this, I feel like that you really did not answer the question that I proposed, you might have in your form, but I was left with let's say confusion.

Let me respond like this, would you consider this to be a correct statement?

In Jn. 3:5 are you saying that water baptism is in view here.

It really matters not what I believe... it is what God tells us through His Word. Beginning, end... also matters not... we have to make the decision to be baptized, period.

There is no doubt that washing of regeneration is referring to water baptism... there is nothing else it could be and be in harmony with the Bible.

Paul explains elsewhere that water baptism renews us.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.


How do we get "in Christ"?

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Gal 3:25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1Co 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

There is only one body and one baptism...

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One body, which is Christ... one baptism, which is water baptism... which gets us into to Christ where the spiritual blessing of salvation is.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

And what could be any more simple than "baptism now saves us" and Peter relating it to water? "one baptism" = "water baptism".

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


This is really very easy to understand and there is no reason to make it complicated. God is not a God of confusion...

__________________
In Christ,
brother Sonnie

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

No I would not agree with your statement because it is not supported with what the Bible teaches. What in the world is "pure water"?

Yes: John 3:5 is talking about water Baptism and it has already been shown to you how.

Kindly,
Don

__________________
preacher@hydeparkcoc.org

Your concordance is of great assistance on the topic of baptism. The subject is so compelling that it cannot be ignored, and yet so demanding that only a relative few choose to obey the command, c.f. Mark 16:16, Matt. 28:18-19.

Thanks, In reference to that of pure water you can find this phrase in Heb. 10:22, Ps. 12:6, Ezk. 36:25, Rev. 22:1 & Jn. 15:3. All of these coincide with each other; now I do not know if you can see what I'm seeing but all of these are in reference to that of the Word of God.

The Pure water has to be the word of God because it is all together associated with Christ because he is the word Jn.1:1. Thus when we read in Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

The washing away, the being baptized has to refer to that of the word of God, because it is the word of God that will wash our sins away, it is the word of God that will make us clean, In other words all of this has to be the work of God.

I could para phrase it like this and say: what are you waiting for ? get up and get thy self saved and get thy self cleansed, of all your sins and call on his name. Prov. 20:9


Correct me here if I am wrong here but I believe that the word baptize that is found in Mark. 16:16 is what you would consider water baptism? If this is so..then do these signs follow those that have been water baptized.

Alright gotta go and do this for the little ones .

Let me make sure I am reading you correctly. So you think Paul in Acts 22:16 was not baptized into water but into the "word"? Is that correct? So, you would then also say that those baptized in Acts 2:38 were baptized no in water but in the "word"? I ask because what do you do with Acts 8:36? Into what was the Ethiopian baptized? Water or a scroll containing scripture that just happened to be laying alongside the road? Romans 6:3-11 also shows water baptism and how it re-enacts the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Yes, Mark 16:16 is teaching water Baptism. It is the same Greek word used in all the verses for baptism. "Baptisma" is the noun and "Baptizo" is the verb. Both from the root "Bapto"

Hebrews 10:22 is speaking of water baptism in a way that the Jewish mind would understand. The thrust of the letter of Hebrews is weak Christian that were thinking about leaving Christ and going back to the Law. The author writes to encourage them to remain faithful to Christ. The "pure water" they were baptized in is not some special type of water nor is it the "word". It is a reference to the Jewish mindset that saw the priests bath themselves in water to purify themselves. The author is talking about how the same thing happened to them when they were baptized, they were "purified" from their sins (Ephesians 1:7 / Acts 22:16). The type of water one is baptized in make no difference (lake, stream, river, pond, pool, ocean)- it is the blood of Christ that matters (Hebrews 10:19).

You see, baptism is the way in which we contact the blood of Christ in a spiritual way. Ephesians 1:7 we have redemption through the blood of Christ. How do we come in contact with this blood- we are baptized into Christ and have "put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27). As I mentioned before: Romans 6:3-11 also walks us through how the act of baptism is a re-enactment of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Kindly,
Don

__________________
preacher@hydeparkcoc.org

Don;

Unfortunately I'm short on time and will not be able to get into to this, but hopefully if all goes well tonight I can touch on this subject.

thanks carl.

Satan believes Jesus is the Son of God,are you sure it is enought to believe that He is.Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments,satan will not keep His commandments, will you.