I may have run a few ideas together in my last post. I think we are kind of getting around to my main point though. You said that even if there were christians who remained faithful to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, that is irrelavant to wether or not the Bible is true. Now we are getting down to the matter of interpretation of the Bible. There is absolutely nothing in the Nicene Creed that is not in the Bible. They both agree with each other. The belief in baptism for the forgiveness of sins was always there, even before the Bible was put together. I think we both agree on that. The belief in the real presence of Jesus in communion was always there as well. You cannot name any person, group of people, or writings to the contrary. If you read the Bible with the point of view of what was always believed from the beginning, now some of those verses have a different meaning. You can read the verses "this is my body and this is my blood" literally as opposed to symbolically because that is what was always believed from the beginning. No one believes in the Bible Alone, they believe in their "interpretation" of the Bible Alone. 1 Timothy 3:15, the "church" is the pillar and foundation of the truth, not the Bible. You made it sound like even if every single christian went totally apostate it doesn't matter, the Bible is still true. That contradicts the Bible, Matthew 16:18, the gates of hell shall not prevail against my church.

Everything Jesus did is not in the Bible, John 21:25. We are told to "stand firm to the teachings we passed on to you by word of mouth and by letter". 2 Thessalnians 2:15.

The Church of Jesus is built firmly on the traditions He and the Apostles handed down orally and on Holy Scripture.

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