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Old 08-14-08, 04:15 PM
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Don Gelles Don Gelles is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Austin, Texas
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Re: An angel a saint?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Sorry Don for taking so long to get back to this discussion but things have been crazy at work and have been working some pretty long hours.

You asked how I define Sainthood. Thankfully, I don't have to define it for that has already been taken care of. Though we share common points because we both believe that the typical practicing Christian can be referred to as a saint, as attested to in scripture, my understanding is a bit broader.

The way I understand it is that Saints, generally speaking, are those individuals who follow Jesus Christ and live their lives according to his teaching. Catholics, nevertheless, also use the word narrowly to refer to particularly holy men and women who, through extraordinary lives of virtue, have already entered Heaven.

The word "saint" literally means "holy," and, in the New Testament, "saint" referred to all who believed in Jesus Christ and followed his teachings. Yes, Paul did often addressed his epistles to "the saints" of a particular city as in Ephesians 1:1 and 2 Corinthians 1:1. Also, Acts 9:2, talks about Peter going to visit the saints in Lydda. The assumption was that those who followed Christ had been so transformed that they were now different from other men and women and, thus, should be considered holy.

The thing is Don, very early on, the meaning of the word began to change. As Christianity started spreading, it became clear that some Christians lived lives of extraordinary, or heroic, virtue. While most Christians struggled to live out the gospel of Christ, some people were renowned examples of the moral virtues, and they easily practiced the theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity.

The word "saint" consequently became more narrowly applied to such people, who were venerated after their deaths as saints, generally by the members of their local congregations and Christians in the region where they lived, because they were familiar with that person’s love of God, moral conduct, and good deeds. In time, the Catholic Church created a process called "canonization," so that such venerable people could be recognized as saints by all Christians everywhere throughout the world.

Two ways to be honored with the respect of "sainthood" are being and the other is to be Acclaimed.
Most of the saints whom Catholics refer to by that title, (for instance, St. Elizabeth Ann Seton), have gone through the process of canonization. Others, such as St. Peter and St. Paul, received the designation through acclamation, or the universal recognition of their holiness.

Catholics believe that both types of saints (canonized and acclaimed) are already in Heaven and their lives are held up to Christians still struggling here on earth as examples to be imitated.
Thanks for the response Peace.

What you shared is just what I was taught when I was in the Catholic Church. I remember the teachings on some of my favorite Saints when I attended CCD classes at Saint Monica's Church in San Antonio. It is also where I received my Confirmation. I used to enjoy hearing about the way they lived and the hope they brought to those they came in contact with.

I asked you three questions and you only answered one of them. I asked you to you define "sainthood" and you said first that it is the same as the Bible defines it- a child of God. This we agree on. But the second definition you gave is almost right out of the Catholic Encyclopedia. That second definition can not be supported with scripture (you agree with this because you provided none) because it is man made.

You have yet to answer my two other questions... show with BCV (book, chapter, verse) where the Canonization process is taught in the Bible. Please show where each step is taught. You do know the steps of canonization don't you? Please show with BCV where these steps are taught in scripture.

My third question that you did not answer was what is the ISBN number of the Bible you are using.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for answering these questions.

A fellow Catholic...
Don
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Don Gelles,
Preacher, Church of Christ in Hyde Park
Austin, Texas
www.hydeparkcoc.org
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