The first 9 posts in this thread are taken from
this thread since they steered off topic. I felt like it would be better and easier to follow if we moved these posts relating to this topic to their own thread here.
In
post #5 of the above referenced thread,
canadasgenius posted the following:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by canadasgenius Another perplexing issue for me, regarding the Church Of Christ, is the lack of pacifism. As I understand it, Campbell and Stone and the early "Church of Christ" congregations were strictly pacifist. However, I have read that pacifism is becoming rare in Churches of Christ. What happened? Any views on this? Are there any pacifists on this forum? On Wikipedia it says: "Some groups once containing a relatively large nonviolence faction are now almost devoid of one, such as the Church of Christ."
I am from an independent Baptist background (not that I agree with their doctrine). Several times, I've heard a preacher give his testimony and say something like this: "I was saved when I was 4 years old. Then I dedicated my life to the Lord when I was 18. I started Bible School, but then the Lord then led me to serve my country in the military for several years. Finally, the Lord led me to finish Bible School." This kind of testimony literally gave me nausea.
I find it very disturbing if it is true that most Churches of Christ no longer believe in pacifism. God alone knows, we can only guess, but I find it hard to believe that anybody who serves in the army, or encourages/allows others to do so, knows the Lord.
If, in fact, Churches of Christ are following only the teachings of the Bible (as they all claim), how did they go from being pacifist to being almost entirely the opposite. |
In
post #15,
John832, in partial response to the above made the following statement:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by John832 I wanted to mention one conclusion of the view that being in the military is sinful. If it is sinful to be in the military, then faithful Christians who are not in the military have a responsibility to go to their military brethren to try to get them to repent and leave the military (Matthew 18:15-17; Galatians 6:1; James 5:19, 20; etc.). If they refuse to repent and quit the military, then we are required by the Scriptures to withdraw fellowship from every one of them, and treat them "as a heathen man and a publican" (Matthew 18:17; 2 Thessalonians 3:6, etc.). We would not be allowed to eat with them (1 Corinthians 5:11); and we would not be allowed to have company with them (2 Thessalonians 3:6, 14). That is, if being in the military is sinful. |
In
post #17,
canadasgenius replied to the above statement from
John832 as follows:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by canadasgenius Matthew 18:15-17 is talking about a brother who sins specifically against you. 2 Thes 3:6 is talking specifically about a brother who is idle. 1 Cor 5:11 is talking about a brother who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. None of the verses you have quoted have any relevance, therefore, to our discussion. |
From that point forward,
canadasgenius and myself continued the discussion about discipline and disfellowship, while
canadasgenius and
John832 continued the discussion about pacifism.
John832 did make one comment about this topic after I had already made a response, however the remainder and majority of his response was focused on pacifism, which I believe is probably a good thing that he did not try to keep two different topic discussions together in one post. It could have gotten very confusing for anyone to follow. Here is his brief comment from
post #18.
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Originally Posted by John832 I totally disagree with what you said about church discipline only being for certain sins, and I encourage you to study that subject further. |
As stated earlier, I believe it will be easier for anyone interested in this subject to follow the discussions with each having their own discussion threads. Therefore all the remaining posts concerning discipline and disfellowship have been moved to this thread and pick up as follows with my response to
canadasgenius:
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Originally Posted by canadasgenius Matthew 18:15-17 is talking about a brother who sins specifically against you. 2 Thes 3:6 is talking specifically about a brother who is idle. 1 Cor 5:11 is talking about a brother who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. None of the verses you have quoted have any relevance, therefore, to our discussion. |
I would like to point out one thing about Matthew 18:15. If a Christian brother sins publicly then he is sinning against the church, which we are a part of, therefore he sins against us. Surely we would not stand by idly and let a bother fester in his sin. Is that love?
James 5:19, 20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 also includes "not in accord with the tradition that you received from us." This could very well include a bother in sin.
I certainly believe these are relevant to this discussion.