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Originally Posted by BVidlar  I reviewed your verses. I do believe that the Old Testament had pre-incarnate appearances of the Messiah. But no man has seen God in all His glory face to face and lived. Moses asked if he could and the LORD answered, “I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee... Thou canst not see my face: for there shall NO MAN SEE ME, AND LIVE. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt SEE MY BACK PARTS: BUT MY FACE SHALL NOT BE SEEN.” (Ex. 33:19-23).
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). When the “Word became flesh and dwelt among us…” (John 1:14) our Messiah “who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” (Phil. 2:6-8). Hagar saw the angel of the Lord in man form. Jacob wrestled with a man form. Abraham entertained a man form. Samson’s parents saw the angel of the Lord in man form. The angel of the Lord at the burning bush spoke in man form.
To my knowledge I know of no example in the Bible were man has seen God in all His glory like one of our “good ole buddies.” Forms and glimpses yes, but not God, Himself. This will not happen until judgment day “…when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is (1 John 3:2).
Humbly submitted, |
Agreed.
I think we need to stay on this topic and not get too far off of it.
RJ, brother Vidlar's verse needs to be addressed in light of the verses I gave earlier.
I do not dispute with the verses you bring up. I am going with what we KNOW as a WHOLE from the scriptures. We cannot push our thoughts into the verses but let the verses speak to us.
There are certain facts we know and lets stay in those. I would like us to do some homework.
1. Lets begin to list all the times God interacted with man.
2. Lets list all the relating scriptures.
RJ, the verses you speak of are not in dispute. What is in dispute is the way you portray the verses in that we HAVE to take those verses and combine the verses about no man seeing God by God and Jesus.
Lets not get off base and say angels are God or God is an angel, or Jesus is an angel or vice versa.
By looking at what we list, it can give us a picture. God's Word is not hard to understand, if we do not wish to resist it or displace it with our own ideas.
I look forward to your response and list of scriptures addressing 1&2.