David:

Is there a text that says we will go to heaven on judgment day as you proposed, with immortal bodies. What I proposed is that heaven was temporal and the new earth is the eternal destiny of the saints.

David are you suggesting that the dead are sleeping literally? What is your definition of a grave? Is it in a field on earth or is it the hadean realm and if it is could it be in heaven too.

The righteous are in heaven awaiting the judgment day when they will be given their immortal bodies, when Christ surrenders the kingdom to the Father and dwells with the saints on the new earth for all of eternity, which is what has been planned from the beginning of time. Heb.12:22ff; 1Cor.15:50ff

Those in heaven are in spirit form, as are the wicked in hades in spirit form. They shall rise first ie be given their immortal bodies and return with Jesus as we see in 1Th.3:13... at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ WITH all His saints. If Jesus returns with His saints as Paul states, then Jesus mus be in Hades now if He will return with His saints and the saints are as you say in hades.

RISE - ANASTASIS - definitions - to rise, to raise up, to awaken, to institute or install in a function, to mark the beginning of an action, My proposal is the dead are raised not to be seen literaly out of a earthen grave but coming back with Christ from heaven marking the beginning of an action, judgment day.

We agree totally on the picture of hades as Jesus stated in Lk.16, where we disagree is I believe that after Jesus ascends on high, men can now enter heaven because the way has been made by His blood. But we all await judgment day when we will go to our eternal abodes, new earth or hell.

In Rev.20:13-15 I say that this is not the judgment of mankind but of wicked men. Note the use of the word DEAD by John in his writings he is always using it concerning the wicked. This is the judgment of the wicked, the sea (society) gave up her dead, death and hades gave up their dead (you have to be dead to be in hades, so he is referring to the wicked) the dead were judged, but the dead already know their destiny, unless of course he is referring to the living dead, as he was in Rev.20:5 the rest of the dead. The statement concerning the book of life was one of reassurance that if your name is there you will not be caught up with the wicked, a promise from God.

But Rev.20:4-6 shows the victorious saints in heaven, reigning with Christ for the 1,000 yrs. But if we don't go to heaven then can you explain who are these that are in heaven now?

Our disagreement is; you believe no one is in heaven now but everyone is waiting in hades for judgment day and I believe; Jesus blood made it possible for the spirits of righteous men to enter heaven as we see in Heb.12:22ff; and numerous examples of the martyrs in heaven in Revelation. Its cool if you believe one way or the other, both can still be victorious in the end if we remain faithful to Christ. My purpose is to generate deeper thought into what the Bible says. Look forward to more of your comments.

Great to have dialogue with you, forgive me if I offend, I don't mean to.

RJ Mac